Unity - Working Together

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Druidic Dawn invites its various Celtic and Druid Associations, Groups and Orders members to a discussion which could lead to some form of unity between the various pathways which are current today.

This discussion is not limited to its community membership, but open to the wider internet Celtic and Druid community, who are encouraged to participate.

This exploration can either be held transparently in this public forum or alternatively within the community members accessible Serious Discussion forum. All who may wish to participate in the proposed discussion are governed by the terms and conditions of using this neutral virtual space.

Ideally speaking representative spokespersons are encouraged to participate who are in a position to speak for an Association, Group or Order, if they exisit. Alternatively we invite heads or leaders of Celtic and Druid Associations, Groups or Orders to participate.

Looking forward to a constructive debate!

 

 



druidking
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Re: Unity - Working Together

Well said and the last statemt is so very true!



druidking
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Re: Unity - Working Together

Having made great effort to connect to the current Druidic tides after many years of only working with our own at   Craeftgemot Witancoveyne.

I feel that the only thing that really units the Neo-Druids or current Drucidic groups is the "Call of The Oak".

As I like to name it, wispering in night "Thou Art a Druid" to your current Mortal Coil. 

This call I believe is from past lives and when hear often causes one to seek anything Druid like that you can accept in this current life and your rasied enviroment.

TDK 



druidking
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Re: Unity - Working Together

Sorry somehow I put this reply in wrong spot!

Well said and the last statemt is so very true!



druidking
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Re: Unity - Working Together
Having made great effort to connect to the current Druidic tides after many years of only working with our own at   Craeftgemot Witancoveyne.

I feel that the only thing that really units the Neo-Druids or current Drucidic groups is the "Call of The Oak".

As I like to name it, wispering in night "Thou Art a Druid" to your current Mortal Coil. 

This call I believe is from past lives and when hear often causes one to seek anything Druid like that you can accept in this current life and your rasied enviroment.

TDK 


druidking
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Re: Just some random thoughts

I  agree with you Fae on this.

TDK / CWI 



druidking
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Joined: 2012-04-19
Re: Just some random thoughts

I  agree with you Fae on this.

TDK / CWI 



nilrem
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Re: Unity - Working Together

It seems to me that what you are asking is very difficult...as evidenced by the lapse of time since the last post.  I think in most groups over time what once attracted a person to be a part of something specific but defined in a general manner, becomes fragmented by various nuances from within and as we define more and more tightly, we are less tolerant of nuances of the original whole. The process repeats itself until there are not enough people left to again divide.  This leads to many small groups that lack effectiveness in moving evolutionary forces in a particular direction.

If we can learn to be less critical of our differences and more open to that which binds us together, then there are less factions in the first place to try to unite once again.  So I guess what I am reying to say (in a very wordy manner Wink) is that the unity must be preserved on an individual level and not on a group level that is trying to capatalize on the differences or cease to exist.



attila
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Re: What is Unity?

Perhaps one tends to think of unity as sameness, I see it more as like whacky races [remember, the cartoon] Smile ~ loads of individuality all travelling along the same road.

If we say we are a druid, then that alone is something that unites us, and it probably doesn’t need to be defined further.

Equally there are some areas of morality and spirituality that can be argued philosophically, and certain aspects can gradually be rubbed out. Eventually if we are all honest with each other, there will be left an honest path.

I think this is found naturally and that for organisations or groups to say this [x] is it, then that is a tad before we have got anywhere near ‘it’. I also expect that there will never be a given set of truths, so we can only gather universals as the wood for our fire.

 

 



Admin
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Re: What is Unity?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity : From Anglo-French unite (c.1200), from Latin unitatem (nom. unitas) "oneness, sameness, agreement," from unus "one". Unity is defined as the state of being undivided or unbroken completeness or totality with nothing wanting. It is the smallest whole numeral representation. It has the quality of being united into one. Unity can denote a combining of all the parts, elements and individuals into an effective whole. It is applicable to people and objects forming whole notions of any concept. It implies oneness when there is a certain usual division.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cohesion: Social cohesion is a term used in social policy, sociology and political science to describe the bonds or "glue" that bring people together in society, particularly in the context of cultural diversity. Social cohesion is a multi-faceted notion covering many different kinds of social phenomena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_cohesion: Community cohesion refers to the aspect of togetherness and bonding exhibited by members of a community, the "glue" that holds a community together. This might include features such as a sense of common belonging or cultural similarity.

Unity might be described in synthesis of the above as a process which could bring about a community environment encompassing both community and social cohesion.  Although this is a neutral web based environment open to a variety of Druid and Celtic interests, or solitary individuals who wish to participate. We are certainly aware of the diversity which is present and to some extent the politics, exclusiveness and maybe “fear” which unfortunately might go with this. Overall one guesses how this neutral community space develops, is dependant on the active community members involved.

When cohesion is expressed the management team responds accordingly. An illustration is the recent Fraternal Druid, navigation menu, the ongoing thread on Declaration of Druidic Values which is still open to respond too. The Celtic Gathering in Canada 2009, and may be another in the near future. There too is Spain, and two other invites waiting in the wings. Plus the Aontacht Magazine in its seventh issue available from this community neighbourhood. We are not passive when feasible and practically possible, the management team will respond to the community suggestions and needs.

This is in addition to supplying a virtual neutral space for interested parties which is stable and technologically secure as possible. Which allows this community diversity to be displayed unbiased to the public and for its community members additional facilities available.  Through discussion the community might find the “glue” which assists in bringing about unity albeit this could mean community cohesion or social cohesion; thus arriving at associated common goals.

Basically it needs a member or members’ to respond jointly with a proposal on how this might be achieved. In the meantime we will continue to move around the same circle together. Yet as a community we do have the feasibility of taking it to the next level or circle  in the spiral. This might require the community to act with a form of “community social cohesion”. However bear in mind any proposal will not be acceptable by or neither be embraced by all. Such is Life!

Admin



Moonsmith
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Re: Unity - Working Together

I am not a representative of any organisation.  I am a Druid. 

I cannot see any need for unity.  Most of us have left "Unified" belief systems behind to be here. Is anyone connected with or following the progress of  ADF.  For those who are connected - "go well" but I can't see sufficient commonality between my own belief framework and theirs to want an approchment.

However - Communication between Druids and way beyond - certainly. Shared learning - priceless.

I received "Listening People, Speaking Earth" by Graham Harvey
this Xmas.  It is a beautiful exposition of the differences and
commonalities of various aspects of Paganism. I might even have found some
definitions of Druidry .  He adopts a
clever balance between tradition and recency.  He describes both the
commonalities and differences very sympathetically.  I would encourage
those who do seek Druidic or wider ecumenism to take a look.

I am also very interested in the early Celtic Christianity at a time when
they were close.  Some of us have formed a discussion group but I am
unable to see how an anarchical Druidic framework which happily expresses its
doubts can find commonality with an hierarchical system adopting [comparative] certainty.  I
see similar difficulties ahead for any other attempt at unity.

I will be
delighted to be proven wrong.

[edited to remove techno-crud]

Admin edited to remove word embeds: When drafting in word, prior to posting use the symbol which will transfer it safely into the forms without any "techno crud" Smile

The Bear - when being human becomes too too much.

--

The Bear - when being human becomes too too much.



wyverne
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Re: Unity - Working Together

so it looks as if Druidic Dawn only needs to shift its emphasis to a unifying role (i know that's not the right word - but a centre of net-working????), or even only to affirm its original emphasis  and get it across to others that that's its role. the only really new thing is the idea that within it could be formed spontaneous parliaments, round tables, i daresay, that would not need to be permanent as they'd be formed of interested parties to deal with specific events whether within druidry or externally where there is felt to be a need for action or intervention. not that it would have authority, but it would be able to contribute out-spokenly and effectively where appropriate. that's some undertaking i suppose. but aontacht is a brilliant little publication - would it be able to absorb this shift and the demands of this this new role, or would that unnecessarily politicise the content of a magazine which i love because it isn't too politicised. i'd rather have my activism informed from a different source, a separate newsletter, or else a system in which spontaneous alerts are sent as events necessitate. probably the latter would be best, or else both, with the emphasis on the collaborative activities and activism etc. just my thoughts. and yes, i can lend a hand with that.   dig we must

--

dig we must



Morgaine_ADO
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Re: To be fair, no its not, but

Greetings, Mhaille,

I would agree with these sentiments. I think it is vital that each group retain its unique character and identity. I don't think you can have real tolerance without real diversity. I seriously doubt that any group can be "all Druidry to all Druids"... there is simply too much lore for any one group to encompass. The ancestral bequest is too rich. As an Avalonian Druid, I've also participated in ADF and OBOD rituals and can attest that while we are all practicing something that has a distinctly "Druid" feel, the atmosphere created is very specific and unique not only to each land, but to each group. Each has its own recognisable energetic signature, if you will, and that is as it should be, for people too are specific and each person will likely have their own preference. What a precious gift and thank the Gods it spans the world and not just one people or country!

I like your idea of a"gathering of Tribes" to dialogue and collaborate on efforts for the benefit of all. And I agree that it is best that such a group not have authority over member groups; however, I do think it would be wise to have a basic code of ethics to which all delegates and member groups must adhere...Something simple and universal. I considered the idea of using the "Statement of Druid Values" that was being worked up here some time ago as a basis, but in reality, much as we might like the idea of a standard that defines Druids everywhere for the media and public, the media will likely draw their definitions from the largest groups anyway. They won't likely give a whit what ADO does or how special it is, unless ADO is news... And I suspect prying their eyes away from the big groups may take more effort and resources than it is worth. The really important thing is that we maintain an attitude of acceptance amongst ourselves and strive to nourish a truly diverse Druid environment

Now... what should we call this "Druid Voice"?

<evil grin>

--

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.



Morgaine_ADO
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What is Unity?

Greetings,

It is not Unity, per se, but fear that is problematic. Merely because mainstream society works within a linear hierarchy does not mean we must function in that manner. ADO has successfully collaborated with others quite happily and we would gladly stand in defense of their rights to believe and practice as they do, even as they would for us. The fact that our co-collaborators are seldom Avalonian Druids has never been a problem.

Why should our diversity prevent us coming together across traditions to work together for the common good? Why should our unique identities divide us? There is no no need to impose or be imposed upon. True, working across cultures and spiritualities can be a bit tricky, but ADO often collaborates with other groups, and we've never lost one bit of our own unique identity or methodology in the process, nor have those we collaborate with... but we have evolved unique ways of working together that allow different paths to share the same basic structures. The ceremony then functions like a common road that we all share when we are collaborating; we can walk this road without forfeiting our own identities or submitting to someone else's control. We are there by consent, for a shared purpose. Collaborating together does not mean one group has to submit to another's authority as it would in a hierarchical structures. Collaborators are equals and if they do not accept another's proposal they do things by consensus, much like a "tribal council". In this scenario, we would all the tribes at the tribal council. No one person or group would be in charge of the others and no tribes would have to forfeit their spiritual or cultural identities in order to participate, yet we could all work together... collaborate... towards common goals and support each others' rights in the world, if that was our wish.

In my experience, the issue of identity arises when the idea of Unity is married to the idea of Control... a linear hierarchy in which someone will be given authority over everyone else. Perhaps we would be better served to look at more timeless models when considering what Unity means in action. Whatever our purpose for pursuing Unity, I would suggest that perhaps establishing such a relationship between groups might be a good place to start in any event. By working together towards common goals we have the opportunity to test out our ideas in practice -- and through experience, to establish a real basis for trust, mutual respect, and collaboration that might best support the uniting of unique paths towards a common destination or goals.

Respectfully,

Morgaine

Founder, Avalon Druid Order (ADO)

--

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.



Admin
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In response to this thread

In response to this thread and the recent Poll, we invite everyone to contribute towards a Decleration of Basic Druid Values. We look forward to contributions from individual Druids and Groups to make this truly representative document.

Druidic Dawn Admin



Morri
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If you are doing a

If you are doing a newsletter and need someone to proof-read, or to do any else that junior editorial staff normally do, feel free to contact me. You can request an ongoing commitment of time from me, or just contact me on an "as needed" basis. Forgive me if this is an inappropriate way of volunteering to help out!

--

~Morri
Fierce in all things and Honour above all.



Admin
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Don't you just love typos!

Hi Shakti

Don't you just love typos! Smile

We already have a newsletter available through Aontacht being edited and produced via a team from different pathways from this community. Perhaps it’s not as suggested by wyverne, yet new facilities have been discussed by the project team these will be going into development shortly. Once introduced this might bring those suggested into a reality.

One thing which we must all be aware of, is not to recreate the Druid internet wheel, but to find ways to harmonise the various talents and specialities of any individual or group, which is interested in participating with “working together”.

Admin



Shakti
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Admin

(The name is ShaKti, thank you. )

):-)

Thanks for your note, Admin. That´s what I mean, so the platform already exists - Druidic Dawn - and, as I gathered, there is also the possibility of sharing a Newsletter. That much being grounded, something could actually happen.



Admin
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Shaki wrote – “Druidic

Shaki wrote – “Druidic Dawn isn´t representing just one group, is it?”

The project team would like to point out that Druidic Dawn is a neutral web based environment, providing a platform for a variety of Druid and Celtic interests. At the moment this relates to 60% who have responded to emails dispatched prior to the website appearing in October 2007.  Since then, the resources and community has grown above this. The remaining 40% have not responded but are still valid, if they wish to be taken up by its recipients’. Overall Druidic Dawn is agnostic to any organisation and has no political agenda.

To enhance the community and the variety of approaches present, this thread has been created to explore this area. Semantics suggest Unity is the wrong usage; harmony might have been more appropriate choice.  What ever is the case, the most important part relates to “working together”, how this comes about; is basically up to the present community through suggestions, discussion and participation. Or even to anyone in this growing community who wishes to explore the area in accordance to the terms and conditions of it use.

As Druidic Dawn is in service to this Druidic community, not only does it offer this neutral platform for everyone’s use,  it too has the ability too provide additional facilities if required by the community majority.

Admin



Mhaille
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To be fair, no its not, but

To be fair, no its not, but then neither are other groups out there. Although Druidic Dawn would clearly share a number of key principles and goals it has its own specific structure in place, whereas if we are to build something to allow us all to be able to work together the structure needs to be built to serve that purpose, giving voice and representation to the decisions of how the mechanisms for interaction will work.

The way I personally see this working is that all of the groups will carry on as they are doing but we will have something resembling a "gathering of the clans" (think of the "gathering of the Gauls" from Caesar's Gallic Wars) to discuss those issues which affect us all and to work through dialogue towards positive change.

Although there are more pan-pagan organisations who no doubt share some of the common goals, I'm thinking of groups like AREN and Our Freedom within the US and PaganFed within the UK (although they have since "gone international") but with a Druidic/Celtic slant, as well as a fully international one.

This group would have no authority to interfere in any way with the running of any of the member groups who would remain completely autonomous. I'd like us to consider working on educational and informational projects (from my work in the wider interfaith movement I'm getting tired of explaining what I am.....) where we could have one central resource for dealing with the media or governments.

We would be A voice for Druidry/Druidism/Celtic Recon (although by our very nature not THE voice for the community). No doubt these are all things we can discuss over time.....wait til we start the discussion over names!!! ;)

Pob hwyl,

Craig

 



Shakti
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Joined: 2008-11-22
Hi, Craig

...Druidic Dawn isn´t representing just one group, is it ?

And yes, it would certainly be good practice!

BB

Shakti.



Mhaille
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Re: Druidic Dawn Facilities

Shakti,

Because in order for this to work it needs to represent the community it represents and therefore not be linked to one specific group. It needs to be something that we are all involved in otherwise some groups may just assume that it is a side project of one individual group. 

Besides it would be good practice for us to get involved in a project of getting something off the ground together to see exactly how we can all work together. ;)

Pob hwyl,

Craig



kproefrock
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Admin wrote: " No apologies

Admin wrote: " No apologies needed, the forum set up here is a little different thanphpbb utilised by a majority of Druid related groups.  Specific reasons exist why this has occurred. Perhaps one would like to share your difficulties concerning the navigation on the feedback form, soit can be assessed and where appropriate rectified.

One does not consider this to be a pointless exercise, although some community members have contributed suggesting how groups might or might not work together.  We look forward to additional community opinions and views."

 

 

 

 

Hello Astrocelt and All!

I would not consider this exercise to be pointless.

In fact, I think that an important door was opened for the dialog to continue. I am grateful for the formation of this neutral space in order to have these conversations.

 

 

The range of responses to this thread underscores the fact that there is a wide continuum within Modern Druidry. The presenting vitality and long-term viability of any such community is dependent on a certain tension between cultural conservatism and innovation. Here we might describe some Gaelic Traditionalist and other Reconstructionist approaches as being on the more conservative end of the spectrum in terms of preservation of authentic tradition. With the more inclusive Revival Orders pushing more on the innovation front. The tension that develops between these extremes is supposed to be passionate. Sometimes that inspires one side to say and do things that might yield a reduction in trust on the other side of the continuum. At the same time, this tension also offers a brighter promise of creativity and dynamism while reminding us that we are all related.

 

 

Speaking as a Celtic Reconstructionist, a member of the Order of WhiteOak Council of Elders and one who has found himself marginalized, even among the already marginalized sub-culture of Contemporary Western Paganism ;-) I am happy that this dialog is happening.

 

 

The reasons for Unity manifest through attitudes of mutual respect, understanding, and open lines of communication. As we continue to grow and develop in our relatively different spiritual practices, we will not only have the opportunity to clarify our rationale for those differences but also find more reasons to be united when we are committed to open and non-judgmental communication.

 

Well done, Astrocelt, for the instrumental part that you have played in this process!

Have a wonderful day!

Green Forests and Blue Skies,

Kenneth 



wyverne
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"it seams to me that there

"it seams to me that there needs to be an overall druids site and forum with order specific sections."

this looks like a good idea to me - something i would use. it would have to be user friendly though. i have to agree that this site is sometimes very frustrating to navigate around, and a bit intimidating at times. the forums could become very like round tables, where anyone with enough commitment to register could voice an opinion in an environment committed to peace and harmony. i like the idea of a very simple format, an all-in-together area with portals to specific druidries, and simple ways for them all to interact.

and no, i have no expertise to offer in this area, except as a sometime user of message boards speaking from the receiving end.

dig we must

--

dig we must



Admin
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No apologies needed

No apologies needed, the forum set up here is a little different than phpbb utilised by a majority of Druid related groups.  Specific reasons exist why this has occurred. Perhaps one would like to share your difficulties concerning the navigation on the feedback form, so it can be assessed and where appropriate rectified.

One does not consider this to be a pointless exercise, although some community members have contributed suggesting how groups might or might not work together.  We look forward to additional community opinions and views.

Admin



attila
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To admin My apologies for

To admin

My apologies for seemingly speaking for all, Embarassed sometimes things seam a bit futile ~ I guess the more ‘union’ one wants the harder it will be to attain. Perhaps moving forwards in increments is the better solution anyway. When I think of it and as I read posts by others, I just thought that a oneness needs to be attained somehow. For example Druidry currently has loads of forums and orders, the biggest ones gets most of the traffic etc, so if we all want an equal say it seams to me that there needs to ba an overall druids site and forum with order specific sections. I expect that as usual I am jumping the gun a tad lols.

I think a topic like this needs to be public although I see your inferred point that it also needs to be private ~ so that people can speak on behalf of their orders prior to the public seeing what they say and taking it as done rather than in the process of being done.

Generally I find this forum a little difficult to navigate and we cannot add quotes from other posts.

 



Astrocelt
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Druidic Dawn Facilities

"I don´t quite get it why there should be a space apart to work with this topic,"

Unfortunately the present facilities available do not suit everyone interested in pursuing this or, who wish to participate. Subsequently the Druidic Dawn Project Team is exploring available options and appropriate facilities for the community to harmonise this together.

Indeed it could involve adding a new facility to accomplish this, if that is the case it takes a little time, all new additions have to reach a specific standard of workability prior to any inclusion. Once sorted it could allow everyone showing an interest, the opportunity of inclusiveness while developing the spirit of this thread further positively.

Astrocelt



Shakti
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Druidic Dawn Facilities

I don´t quite get it why there should be a space apart to work with this topic, since Druidic Dawn has already all the facilities available, including a Newsletter.

 

Bright Blessings,

Shakti.



wyverne
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admin asked 'Will you be

admin asked

'Will you be putting your name forward to take on this responsibility if this becomes available?'

not single-handed but i could certainly lend a hand. i could even incorporate it into the serpentstar southern hemisphere newsletter if it's not too lengthy.

it could take the form of a public thread on this site to which anyone who is doing anything relevant or knows of anything relevant being done could post brief accounts (a sentence or two) with links to more detail, or to polls or petitions relevant to druids of all paths. could non-members post to this as well? if not, my email address could be used to mediate non-members' contributions.

then, that thread could easily be summarised into a very brief newletter of only a few kbs giving brief headings with links which could be bulk-mailed to subscribers. its existence could be advertised in any receptive druid outlets - newsletters, websites etc.

i haven't exactly got my finger on the pulse - i can't go to things, and i'm not really all that computer savvy, so i'd need help to source the material. but it's maybe worth having a go.

wyverne /|\ 

--

dig we must



Admin
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We are listening intently to

We are listening intently to the community here for its requirements in this thread, to water this seed so it can grow into a sapling.

Hello Atilla,

Forums are available; there is the serious discussion forum in the community space.  It’s very easy to commence a thread there. A specific forum heading can be set up if required. Alternatively does the community want this to be open then perhaps we could add an additional Public forum which can be viewed, but community members only can post and contribute to it.

Which one is preferable for you and does it also suit the community?
What name or label does the community suggest it should be called or known by?
Do we need a poll to decide this?

Why should is it all or nothing? The thread indicates there are individual voices which speak for themselves and have not given their permission to another to speak on there behalf or for them. All are part of this community, their voice has a right to be heard like any one else’s. This suggestion is one way for it to happen. A lot depends on everyone in the community, if the majority wants it to happen, it will, if they don’t, then it will not occur.

Concerning your thoughts on the other item are you aware of this directory here?  Maybe it is not perfect yet it’s something to build upon.

Hello Wyverne,

Your comments and suggestions are noted, once groups or individuals become interested in building mutual bridges in working together in Unity/Harmony. A newsletter relating to what’ has been suggested becomes a feasibility. Will you be putting your name forward to take on this responsibility if this becomes available?



wyverne
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what will be done to inform

what will be done to inform the various druid groups and their members and independent druids within the druid community of what is being proposed here, so that feedback can be got from as many people as possible as to what they want from such a group?

the kind of newsletter i had in mind would be a very simple one-page plain text up-date specifically detailing current concerns, asking for feedback (simple polls for example) and advising on appropriate action, whether on-line, or by gathering at a venue, or whatever. it would be sent not too frequently, not necessarily regularly, but as things come up, about once a month to maintain contact, (full moon eg) but more often during intense campaigns. it would also keep people informed about what the representing body/bodies are doing off their own bat without painstakingly getting feedback on issues they're pretty sure of.

wyverne

--

dig we must