Unity - Working Together

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Druidic Dawn invites its various Celtic and Druid Associations, Groups and Orders members to a discussion which could lead to some form of unity between the various pathways which are current today.

This discussion is not limited to its community membership, but open to the wider internet Celtic and Druid community, who are encouraged to participate.

This exploration can either be held transparently in this public forum or alternatively within the community members accessible Serious Discussion forum. All who may wish to participate in the proposed discussion are governed by the terms and conditions of using this neutral virtual space.

Ideally speaking representative spokespersons are encouraged to participate who are in a position to speak for an Association, Group or Order, if they exisit. Alternatively we invite heads or leaders of Celtic and Druid Associations, Groups or Orders to participate.

Looking forward to a constructive debate!

 

 



attila
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All or nothing?

To admin

I think it better to have both kinds of forums, maybe in one forum. It could have an area for personal discussions etc and a confidential area along with the normal public debate areas.

Unfortunately it would probably just be another forum with a few members that slides into oblivion.

All or nothing?

The only way this would work is if everyone agreed to put there forums onto one, but I cant see that happening.

Perhaps we should concentrate on sharing in a smaller way even though I believe it beneficial for now and future Druidry to unite in some way.

So perhaps end discussions on greater circles and arch druids, and concentrate on other things? The amount of debate these topics get, one would think that in our hearts we feel a need to unite, even though nearly everyone is negative about it.



Admin
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as far as I know

"as far as I know, our British equivalant, the Community Interest Company has no such limitations."

Indeed there is limitations, what it is not refers to

(a) a political party;
(b) a political campaigning organisation; or
(c) a subsidiary of a political party or of a political campaigning organisation.

What a CIC is concerned with is serving its community here, insuring all concerned within the community reap the benefits of its endeavours. In respects to this discussion Unity/Harmony working together, there are features here, at the thread disposal which could be utilised.

For instance a specific forum could be set up within the members community space, whereby those concerned can post to it only if a working group is created. The whole community can be aware of what is being discussed. Alternatively it could be made a closed forum so no one, apart from its contributors can use or see it. If the latter becomes the preferred choice, it would suggest some kind of “Statements” will have to be made to the community, by those involved. However the transparency is lost and could have a tendency to alienate Druid Groups and community in which they could or might represent. Indeed if neither of these suggestions is acceptable then a mailing list technology might become available if requested by the community. Are there other unexplored ideas which need to be put forward to assist this community thread developing into a seedling?

As indicated it is something which can not be done overnight, and needs to develop slowly, if it is going to grow to maturity.

Admin



wyverne
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morgaine, what you've said

morgaine, what you've said there is very much to the point. i think it's actually a positive advantage to have individuals register their protests, or whatever, instead of having the various organisations do it for us. it's more honest and gets more attention, because a powerful officialdom can speak for a multitude of people who have no idea that they're being spoken for, and the powers that be know that. petitions and email campaigns more truly convey the amount of feeling among informed groups and have more leverage.

in this point i see highlighted the trade-off between the idea of having a druid officialdom and maintaining individualism. the officialdom does not just 'represent' the opinions of the members of the organisations, but it keeps them all informed of the issues (being itself informed about druid interests by keeping its finger on the pulse of the various druidries), and tells the individuals when where and how to act for optimal effect in a campaign or protest. no-one has to comply or be confined to their suggestions, but voices which could otherwise be lost in the crowd can become potent forces for positive change.

i'm thinking of the way australia's wilderness society, and to a lesser extent, amnesty and similar organisations track the interests of its members and use highly focused professionals to keep us informed enough to vote wisely, sign petitions and contribute appropriately to email campaigns. i assume other organisations work similarly. they do of course speak at their discretion for the generality of members, which their attention to feedback enables them to do, but they exercise no top-down control.

wyverne /|\

dig we must

--

dig we must



CalonDdraig
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As far as I know, the rule

As far as I know, the rule about political acctivity only applies to non profit companies in the US - as far as I know, our British equivalant, the Community Interest Company has no such limitations. But that's not the point anyway. 

Of course groups must maintain their independance... as mentioned before, Unity doesn't mean one great big supergroup doing everything. That's Microsoft Druidry for you, not something I'd really like to see.  

But are we really still talking about unity? If everyone agreed to share some simple basic ideas by which they conduct themselves, be open for dialogue and at least make an effort to be in harmony with the other groups around them, that wouldn't be necesary. Like I mentioned, traditionally Celts formed councils whereever they met. Not with an over riding presidant but with equal input from each member; the consensus of which gave the base of any decision. Personally, I think we're looking at the wrong methods here... Arch Druidry would be impalitable for a lot of people, myself included, and as you're probably aware CoBDO has peversely done exactly the oposite as intended... instead of uniting people is has split into factions and as a result many including OBOD and The Druid Network won't have anything to do with it.

When
collaborating on these kinds of workings
with other Druids, we've seldom needed anything more sophisticated than email. Mainly what we need is information: what's to be done, when, where, how, and
why, etc. 

 

I agree with you there Morgaine, what is needed is an independant non-affiliated and non-centralised neutral space for multi-order and multi grove interaction. Now, Druidic Dawn is non-affiliated and non political, but unfortunately is not decentralised... you always need someone at the top and our thanks go to the Project Team for their work. However, it is a good start as proven by the fact we're having this discussion now. The question is, how can we take this ethos of peer-to-peer interaction and communication, mixed with Druidic Dawn's style of open behaviour and make something that's mutually acceptable to all? My first guess would be to stop thinking in terms of leaders, arch druids and power, but instead thinking of people, groups and conversation. If this is done in a spirit of sharing and communication it could do really well. Of course it also means mirroring people's interaction (like you see on this thread) with the heads of orders interacting. I didn't say agreeing or ceeding/gaining power, but interacting and building bridges between each other.

Cheers and beers,

~Dafydd 



attila
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So each group would need to be independent still

*Gasp* legalities. So each group would need to be independent still ~ well that’s what we want anyway. What you have is another circle [esp legally] which all the others are linked to but not literally part of, votes can be taken from all, weather or not some are directly linked or not. The legal language is something to get around and indeed may be conducive to what we really want.

my only worry is that nonprofit groups would eventually loose touch with a main profit making group.

 i am sure other religions find a way around all of this, surely there are many christian charity groups? is it neccessary to be non-profit making?

 



Morgaine_ADO
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What does ADO Need in order to Collaborate w/Other Druids?

Greetings,

Actually, this is an important question...

As a registered nonprofit religious charity, ADO is legally barred from devoting a substantial amount of our time or resources to activities that the government considers "political activsm" (i.e. efforts which can be construed as supporting a political party, platform, or politician). These activities must be pursued by the individual members, independently of ADO. The rules are by no means fair, since they are only enforced upon minority religions, but the price of defying them is to lose your nonprofit status... something we'd rather not do. However, this needn't be a real obstacle. We could go round this issue by using a petition site (e.g. The Petition Site, Care2, etc.), where our
members could sign their support or lodge their complaints with officialdom as individuals, rather than as an Order.

Nonprofits are not barred
from doing ceremony, healing work, or acting as stewards of the planet in more practical ways, etc.. When
collaborating on these kinds of workings
with other Druids, we've seldom needed anything more sophisticated than email. Mainly what we need is information: what's to be done, when, where, how, and
why, etc.

I might be able to provide more information once I know more specifically the kinds of things we'd all like to collaborate on. In the meantime, thank you for asking and I hope this is helpful!

Morgaine

 

 

 

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.

--

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.



attila
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It needs a lot of effort and

It needs a lot of effort and ‘something’ to tie it all together! Preferably someone without an ego as such. Also it needs machanics so that such a person cant gain one.

As I see it, it will happen big or not at all leaving Druidry rather flaccid imho.



CalonDdraig
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Craig: Welcome to this

Craig: Welcome to this forum... Dach chi'n croeso iawn i'r fforwm hon!

To reply to both of your posts, on changing a governing body, look at the EU... that has a rotating presidancy, where one state takes up the toarch of acting as a figure head every 6 months. However, it is only acting as a figure head, not wielding real power in governance, that is still democratic.

I'm still not sure I like the idea of an arch Druid... it's obvious that an order of orders isn't the way to go to achieve unity or harmony (Just look at the CoBDO - they are neither united or harmonious), but I'm not sure that one man leading is a good thing... power corrupts, and like Craig rightly pointed out there are some people involved in Druidry flying on egos.. that's something to bear in mind.

What do others think?

~CalonDdraig 



attila
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If we want this to change, we need a "mask" to present to the wo

If we want this to change, we need a "mask" to present to the world

Exactly! All I was thinking was voice speaking ‘outwards’ not inwards telling us all what to do. I agree we should very much learn from the ancestors esp, as concerns education.

For me that façade needs something by which those who claim to speak for us are not recognised, it’s a tricky thing to achieve but we must not be all put in the same basket as certain nutters [Nazi’s etc]. after all people like that are speaking for us to some degree weather we agree with them or not.

This is why I think an order of orders is the better option. Rotation is good too esp for councils, one could have a few members from each group and change them every now and agin. Not sure how we would work out the proportions as some orders are bigger than others, this is why I questioned the idea of councils on page 1. However I do think we need councils and issues would be decided by everyone anyway, so councils and an arch druid would only represent that in the main.

Can we rotate the arch druid though? I would think a movement needs a particular face even if they have no actual power.

 



Mhaille
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All together now......

Greetings,

I have followed this discussion, along with other ones within other forums anda few offline ones too, for some time, so I might as well add my two-penneth into the mix. I am involved in some interfaith work in the north of England, which I feel has helped me to gain a better understanding of my faith, whilst at the same time allows people of very differing beliefs to work together on select issues which affect the local community as well as some wider issues. For me this has been very rewarding. None of the people involved, including myself, claim to represent anyone, however our faith is something that unifies us, despite the wide interpretations on an individual level. 

Within this mix, and I appreciate there are a number of reasons why, the pagan voice is rarely heard, any pagan voice. Now not everyone may agree with me, but I believe that now is the time to stand shoulder to shoulder with those aiming to enable positive change within people's lives.

There is a certain irony that I am able to engage in open discussion with monotheists and those whose beliefs are very far removed from my own on widespread issues, and yet many with whom my beliefs are only slightly removed from seem reluctant to work together.

One of the good things about paganism as a group is that most people who identify amongst its ranks are free independent thinkers. The problem, I feel, within that is when the ego becomes involved. It is far easier for us to feel like big fish in small ponds than it is to set aside ego and our own self interests (or even collective group interests) than it is to see how we may work together.

If we are to do this the people we charge with organising and serving our communities must be free from any agendas, either for themselves or the groups they represent. The council would exist only to provide our wider and often disparite community with the means to have open discussion between all, to speak as one where we can, not to allow people to sell more books, or orders to sign more people up for their latest courses.

I like the idea of the rotating council (another great way to prevent egos getting the better of us)  whilst someone asked what would we discuss. I think the answer would need to be anything and everything. I think the most important thing is that this is a completely seperate undertaking, not linked to any group, but linked to all. Individuals, or groups, can support whatever they wish, so any missives or announcements from the gathering can be seen to be supported only by those who do.

I'm sure that there is still much for us to discuss before such a group could be structured, but to my mind it is something that we as a community have been sadly lacking for too long.

Pob hwyl,
Craig

Ord na Darach Gile



wyverne
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yeah, astrocelt, aontacht -

yeah, astrocelt, aontacht - a brilliant resource!

and i applaud your list, morgaine. i might add

  • a commitment to raising the profile of druidry in the outer community.

 by this i mean that people drawn to the task of actively finding ways of informing the public about the many forms of druidry, and countering false impressions about it. i mean people who might have their own personal, closely defined path within druidry, but are able easily to transcend this and talk to the public about the myriad paths.

 in the peace of the grove

wyverne /|\

--

dig we must



Morgaine_ADO
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Tolerance & Unity

I very much agree with your posts to date on this issue, Attila. I see no reason why being United needs to be synonymous with being uniform... The two words have very different meanings. Were an Archdruid or Council to set about making all Druids groups the same we would lose a tremendous asset: our diversity. Just as the planet needs diversity to thrive, so does Druidry. For instance...

No one person or group could possibly learn and practice everything that Druidry every was in all places and times, and in every culture. The very idea is absurd. If the full richness of the tapestry is to manifest, we absolutely need everyone's unique perspective and voice. However, that is not to say that we don't share some basic beliefs and goals in common. Were someone to ask me what I think these things are, I would say:

  • Tolerance for diversity
  • Respect for the Ancestors and Spirits of Place
  • Stewardship of the Earth and all its Creatures
  • Devotion to Lifelong Learning
  • Devotion to Discovering Truth in its fullness
  •  A Belief in the Individual's Power to Effect Positive Change
  • A Belief in Self-Empowerment
  • Love of Nature and the Natural World

Does it really matter if we all worship the same Gods or use the same ceremonial formats? (After all, the ancestors didn't!) Come to that, the ancient Druid Colleges didn't issue diplomas; one's merit as a Druid was assessed in person by other Druids and by the community, and one's reputation sprung not from the validation of a government institution, but from one's own words and deeds. Why should we not do the same? We have no need for an Archdruid or Council to tell us who is or is not a Druid. We each demonstrate that every time we open our mouths or take action in the world. What is lacking is a unified face and voice to present to the "outside" world (i.e. the human world outside of Druidry). People who are not on this path have no sense of us all as being Druids. We appear so diverse as to be unrelated. This does dilute our influence on events outside our own Druid communities. Whereas we could have a strong influence on important environmental issues, we are nonentities in the greater discussion. If we want this to change, we need a "mask" to present to the world; one which can speak for us all on matters that concern us all.

Well, that's my two cents for the present. Thank you for listening!

 

 

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.

--

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.



Morgaine_ADO
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Clarity

Greetings,

It appears that a lot of the discomfort with this idea stems from people feeling that its purpose remains unclear. What would an Archdruid of all Druid groups do? Would they wield power over how the individual groups work? What would a Council do? Would it be empowered to dictate how individual groups' practices?

Our own tradition has a mechanism for limiting the impact of corruption in authority figures, one which might be useful to consider in either case: Rotation.

Avalonian Druids each take turns holding titles and positions on a rotation, so that every full Druid from each circle eventually has their time sitting in Council. In like manner, our regional councils were united at a "hub" or central council -- and the site of this council rotated amongst the regions, so that no single region could claim authority over the others...

This is what our lore teaches us. While this precise system may  or may not be practical forall the world's Druids, the idea of rotating the authority so that no one person or group can assume power over all the others is one that might be adaptable to our situation...

I would not want to see an Archdruid or a Council dictate how members groups could or should believe or work. I see this role as being more like representing a confederation of all Druids. To my mind, this role would be to speak for all Druids on the areas where we already agree and overlap, not to impose one rule on all groups. It's about Unity, not uniformity.

So these are my thoughts to date... I look forward to sharing more with all here in the days to come.

Bendithion Afallon

 

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.

--

Three First Parts to Understanding: An Eye to See What Is; a Heart to Feel What Is; and a Boldness that Dares to Follow.



Astrocelt
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"what about a

"what about a newsletter?"

Will this one do


 



Admin
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Seeing as there is some

Seeing as there is some interest here to take this further, Druidic Dawn has started a poll on the subject of a basic Declaration of Druid Values. The poll can be found here: http://druidicdawn.org/node/1735 

The poll will run for 4 weeks from today (one month)

Looking forward to seeing everyone's opinion on this!

On Behalf of the Project Team,

Druidic Dawn Admin 



wyverne
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yes, you could be right

yes, you could be right about casting a circle being too exclusive, but maybe invoking a blessing . . .? let's do it now - i will anyway and you can second it or not as you please (hope that's all right with everyone).

and unity/harmony yes, but not at the expense of diversity - which i suppose is what this whole discussion is on about - i'm preaching to the converted!

and i like the tree metaphor, although maybe it's a forest, with a high tolerance of variation in even the most basic foundations of belief. i see the buddhist influenced world peace movement people (whom i applaud but differ from), who seem to be minimising difference, as one tree, while those of us whose druidry tends to maximise difference, foregrounding our ritual magic, runes, charms, alchemy, wands, cards and paraphenalia, would be another tree, recognised as part of the grove, if not forest and all valued for what they offer. and there are plenty of other trees - community oriented, health-care professionals with druid perspectives on health and community, positive thinking and new-age people and performance druids for example - all their own tree, forming one grove, all committed to world-healing and world peace, and seeking ways to act as one on issues that touch us all.

i would willingly at any time leave my individual circle to participate in a group activity i believe in that works outside the narrow parameters of my own magical practice. i'd walk for justice in tibet, land-rights in the kimberley, hey, land-rights for gay whales, sacred sites and pagan rights, and not care about the specific interests within druidry of the people walking beside me. this applies within druidry with all its diverse forms and in the greater community. perhaps it's the logistics of this we are looking at here.

i might add that i'm not rich, and bound to my farm by the needs of my animals, so i can't travel, so i'd be wanting whatever solutions are arrived at here to have an on-line component and a concerted ritual/meditation component so that those of us who can't attend personally may nevertheless participate to the full. what about a newsletter?

this is a vital, important discussion - wonderful things being said.

wyverne /|\

dig we must

--

dig we must



attila
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I wonder if there were arguments between cave painters!

I for one absolutely agree about not drawing circles as exclusion zones to limit us, though I am sure no-one meant that literally.

The best analogy for me is the tree, where we can all be included. I think many of us have a monotheism hangover [yes even me lols] where we think of unity as ‘all the same’ and that individual practices can get in the way ~ in a manner.

Let us imagine that there was a universal church and muslims, Buddhists and Christians all went to pray there. The differing ways would probably clash just as much as if people used their craft tools in a temple.

Somehow we must find ways to not get in each others way as concerns differences. This both practically and philosophically.

It is something man has struggled with since forever, I wonder if there were arguments between cave painters! Laughing



Consmiles
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inclusive not exclusive

Normal
0

Hi,

it was me that said we would need to modify the "human rights
declaration" to include all aspects of the many paths of druidism.

I do not agree with the idea of casting a circle around this discussion as
it immediately defines who is in and who is out. Secondly it creates a founding
members hierarchy. Thirdly it is not the way that I, and many who stand with me
hold our space. I reckon that this “casting a circle” is the first step towards
excluding rather than including. Be aware that many who walk this path do not
cast circles of protection as they do not see things in that way, many also
never go on line, many who do go on line avoid druid forums because there is a
tendency for the e-savvy to dominate and leave others out.

On my wandmaker course all participants are shown how to make a wand direct energy and see actual results then they are asked to break that wand. Tools focus the intention but should not be the objects of value - it is the knowledge gained that has the value and how such knowledge is used shows the wisdom.

I suggest that this interesting topic be kept open for all time with a view
to inclusion of all who have interest in the intention of the topic. I further
suggest that the next stage may be to establish commonality (maybe based on a
modified human rights declaration) and to not be in a hurry.

Enjoy every step of the dance.



CalonDdraig
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Wyverne, it seems you

Wyverne, it seems you misunderstand me, and that you've taken what I've said on a literal level rather than the analogies and examples my words are. 

 

 realiseyou're not suggesting that the tools and paraphenalia be done away with altogether, nor are you the only one mentioning it, but i'm noticing that wherever i go where druidry is being discussed, more and more the ideals promoted are those of other religions (quakerism and buddhism here on this board alone) with strong suggestions that the 'magic' and 'paraphenalia' are, well, perhaps fun, even possibly sometimes effective in our little healing rites and rituals, but not important - just as the rites themselves are not important, and really it's time we grew up and put aside childish things and gave over making fools of ourselves by dressing and acting like druids in public. 

 

Wyverne; the point of my original post was mentioning that differences in outward practice should not interfear with our seeking of a dialogue as it is unlikely people will share attitudes to their tools. Your tools are different from my tools, and if you recall I said that the ultimate objective was the key issue here, not what tools you use to achieve them.

You'll also notice that I used Quakerism as an analogy of people with different beleifs cleaving to a reasonably small set of core values.

i also worry about the assumption that we all agree on the human rights declaration, which i personally found a little too culture specific in some areas. 

 

 I didn't say we should agree on the human rights declaration, I suggested that we look at a set of core values of what we do, values that we can cleave to, but are not all-encompassing as to tread on people's toes - i.e. they are a set of basic core values that all on the path can share without influencing their practice. 

i think it's a pity that no one cast a circle, gave peace to the quarters, or invoked the sacred grove at the commencement of this discussion. what is suppressing the truly druidic content in our druidry? 

 

I'm sure all here would be happy to contribute to such a ritual when we meet to discuss it, however the rack this server sits in is probably a little too small to get us into to call the quartersWink However, if you'd like to go out and invoke a circle of peace over this thread, that would be lovely, thank you. 

 

Let's focus on the discussion here, and what unites us as practitioners of Druidry ... 

~CalonDdraig



wyverne
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conical hats, wands and charms . . .

'I think we should take this attitude to our druidry and not keep getting hung up on robes, wands, parephenalia and tools. The tools are irrelevant, it is the mechanic and the engine that is important - the tools just facilitate the work.'

the above worries me a bit. innoccuous a statement as it might seem, i see it as making the idea of unity somewhat threatening to druidry as a viable myriad of paths.

i realise you're not suggesting that the tools and paraphenalia be done away with altogether, nor are you the only one mentioning it, but i'm noticing that wherever i go where druidry is being discussed, more and more the ideals promoted are those of other religions (quakerism and buddhism here on this board alone) with strong suggestions that the 'magic' and 'paraphenalia' are, well, perhaps fun, even possibly sometimes effective in our little healing rites and rituals, but not important - just as the rites themselves are not important, and really it's time we grew up and put aside childish things and gave over making fools of ourselves by dressing and acting like druids in public.

why a symbol-debedecked conical hat and braided robe embroidered with runes, with spiral-carved jewelled staff or wand and magical charms of protection plaited into long hair or beard should be found sillier-looking on a druid than a starched winged bonnet, robes, rosary, book and cross are on a bald nun, the robes and paraphenalia of the churchs' priesthoods, or mortar board cap and academic robes on a graduand - or the overalls and cloth cap of a garage mechanic for that matter - is a matter of the sort of subliminal intracultural politics i would hope to see us unite to counteract.

it worries me when i see druids uniting instead on the idea that well, yes, the magical side is just a big ego-trip really. the important things are those in which we do not differ from the big religions with impeccable credentials so we're asked to espouse buddhist morality and eschew behaviours for which they are inappropriate.

i don't argue with buddhist morality, but i notice that if we keep discarding druid basics (magic for the good of all beings, the love of all beings, with humanity right in context and in proportion, and open-minded exploration of the invisible worlds - or those are the ideas i found emphasised in the obod gwersu and on the obod message board) we can't form a truly druidic moral philosophy.

if you believe in the 'higher' energy, the divine powers and magical resources of the world, and trust the nwyfre, why cringe at the idea of being seen by the runes on your robe and the awen symbol on your hat to be actively managing it for the good of all beings, including the human community.

i live far enough from a town to wear mine all day and everyday, but i'm not game to appear in town wearing it because of the intensity of the reaction i'd get. this indicates to me that in order to 'come out' as druids, we need to do some carefully considered, sensitive educating of the public in order to get them to see the simple sanity and justice of permitting non-'mainstream' minority groups to wear their own choice of clothing. it's a racist thing and most people hate racism and would be willing to listen to reason.

in medieval times the goidelic conical school cap and the taller wizard's hat were anathematised with great ferocity, stone-throwing, the stocks, and worse, such that they are still ridiculed despite the sometimes bizarre costumery of the church, (bishop's mitres are high-strangeness till you get used to them), the legal profession (weird wigs), academica, and many ethnic groups living as minorities within the dominant cultures. 

i also worry about the assumption that we all agree on the human rights declaration, which i personally found a little too culture specific in some areas.

in my opinion (and i speak only as an individual, not for a grove, unless wyeuro's grove of two people, many fairies, elementals and spirit beings is to be counted as a grove), it probably is time to get an overview, a sense of all the rapidly evolving and growing and diversifying druidries, and this sense of them should be held or rather traced collectively by this or any of several other boards, and even by a defined group keeping a finger on the pulse, but too soon to begin to attempt to unite them.

this is very much a discussion among a very few intellectuals on a fairly high intellectual level, and way over the heads of many good, effective druids i know, whose interests imo aren't being properly addressed. how would they feel about an organisation to 'unite' us all forming over their heads without their being consulted?

i feel the emphasis at this point should be on mapping it all, exploring it, identifying features and evolving even the means by which to see it, feel it, know it and understand it. and we need to get out from under the buddhist umbrella, and similar, and cooperate with them in matters of world-healing from our own, distinctively druidic, wand-wielding, gown-wearing, circle-magic-doing perspectives. we need to connect with our archetypes.

people who worry that we need concerted groups to deal with issues in the community vital to druidry (sacred sites management, human rights issues, etc), will easily find each other and the appropriate groups, the doers, protesters, whatever, will manifest, as they have been doing. when we understand how they do and how they operate, then we can begin to find ways to enhance their efforts from a unifying perspective.

ultimately perhaps the aim should be not to unify druidry, but to organise a group or groups of intellectuals within druidry who will maintain a unified vision of druidry in its rapid growth phase throughout the world in the 21st century.

i think it's a pity that no one cast a circle, gave peace to the quarters, or invoked the sacred grove at the commencement of this discussion. what is suppressing the truly druidic content in our druidry?

wyverne /|\ 

dig we must

--

dig we must



Astrocelt
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Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Interesting concept

Interesting concept,  I understand from the thread contents there, this is not the voice of OBOD but a single druid individual, maybe two, as there appears to be an agreement.  Perhaps the Chosen chief who is a member of this community may find time to comment here on whether OBOD endorses such a thing, if so, from the information gleaned it would appear the order then needs to be guided in this direction towards acceptance.  Whatever is the case will this model suit other interested groups who would like to work together with this suggested structure? 

When each druid group has their own specialities, perhaps they should be placed in positions which suit their talents and abilities, in harmony and agreement with all interested parties; thus not stepping on toes. However this is all hypothetical at the moment I understand there is only one druid group which has stepped forward at present who would like to work with other druid groups.

Never realised internet Druids could be such a shy and quiet bunch!  Smile



attila
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Posts: 154
Joined: 2007-11-25
we like the oak...

http://www.wildwaysontheborle.co.uk

that’s a nice place Nigel, not too antiseptic [homely].

Some interesting stuff going on!

Druidry is an individual path and community only exists within ones own kind of brand, and not outside of it.

Was it not always an individual path ~ and also a shared one. The sharing does not have to tread on others toes, indeed like merlyn said over at obod forum, we can think of it as like a tree, where only major agreed upon issues are taken on by the main branches. We little twigs can bear our own leaves with our own patterns imprinted upon them, the whole thing could work in perfect harmony, with each group being like a branch of our strong oak [one day to grow into].

_______________________________

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights would need to be remodeled to include all aspects of the Druid Path imho.

I don’t think it would be such a massive undertaking as we don’t need to tackle individual issues but allow them all to flourish.



Consmiles
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Posts: 16
Joined: 2007-10-17
not in a shadow

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights would need to be remodeled to include all aspects of the Druid Path imho.

If such a work can be undertaken (maybe by Druidic Dawn) without control agendas then I suggest that many including orders, schools and individuals can add their names to it giving it strenght. The challenge is to remain in your own connection to the Light and not to stand in anothers shadow. Good on you CalonDdraig



Astrocelt
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Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Just following on from the

Just following on from the example given by Calon Ddraig concerning the Trigonos Centre, together with some thoughts.

There is a developing place available, which is run by a member of this community at http://www.wildwaysontheborle.co.uk which is used by several Druidic Groups, such as OBOD and BDO. It too is available for use by the Arts and Environmental groups. I do not think it has developed into undertaking permaculture or becoming self supporting at present from my understanding.

From my point of view, what has been proposed in relation to some form of Druidic Centre on both side of the Atlantic, and maybe even in the Southern Hemisphere also. All becomes possible when Celtic and Druid Groups, assist each other and work together as a community.

For instance, had it not been for interested parties and various Druid related group representatives coming together in unison and negotiating. Access to Stonehenge would not have become possible. What would have been the results of a lone crusader or a single individual Druid or Pagan Voice attempted this on their own?

Of course there are Druid related groups which tend to specialise in different areas which has been categorised and published in book form in 2007.

During their hay day Fraternal Druids acted as centre and provided funds to support their membership. This acted like a modern insurance company does today, in respect to injuries received by artisans, assisting in burials and general supported their Druid membership in many ways. This is in addition of there other activities such as undertaking celebrations at monuments and acting as a spiritual learning centre. Myth is a better position than I to discuss to this.

There are also Druid groups which take on eco-warrior issues, druid networks which serve specific purposes, such as catering for solidarity Druids, acting as a pool within specific countries which brings Druids together in cyber space. Some also go further organising off shoot projects. There too are Druid organisations acting as spiritual guides. plus reconstruction Druid groups, in some cases they too look at the spiritual, connecting to their land, but approach druidry in a different way. Even though one wonders whether such groups could work together; or they can they sort out there diffrences'and arrive at some form of harmony. Maybe they can't because Druidry is an individual path and community only exsists within ones own kind of brand, and not outside of it.

Contributors to this thread have asked what would be the purpose of coming together, who decides who becomes part of working together. Maybe the answer is too simple to see. Druid Associations, groups and orders and networks who have a wish to work together decide, they too decide on the purpose thus working together and achieving paractical and achieveable goals.

If druid individuals feel that they are being threatened because they are loosing there independent voice then I would like to ask in respect of those Druid representatives which were present at the negotiations over a decade ago concerning access to Stonehenge .....

Did you give your permission for then to speak for you?
Did those representative Druids speak on your behalf?
Did they decide to work together with a purpose in mind?

How can this come about? Druidic Dawn works for its community, as a neutral virtual space, it is offering out a hand in peace, to create a virtual neutral environment in which this might be carried out. In time moving it into a practical reality.

Will you take the hand offered,  will you embrace it or will you reject it.

j



attila
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Joined: 2007-11-25
Just a question : Would the

Just a question : Would the concept of "monastery" mean celibacy ????

I hope it wouldn’t be such a monastery, since when have druids been celibate.Smile

ColonDdraig

I agree about simplicity, though I use tarot sometimes, and I don’t think it is particularly wrong to use tools or dress how we want, robes etc. There are far more pressing issues in our world and this is the kind of thing that does effect ones individuality.

We don’t need to tell each other what to do and how to act, be celebate etc, we just need to be individuals in a circle and act as one where needs be.

 

admin; this place needs better forum software, it is climsy at best.



csmaccath
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Joined: 2008-09-20
My hope is that it can form

My hope is that it can form its own interesting discussion on this
space, and leave us to discuss the origal point on this thread.

Good idea. Thanks. Though I don't really know how much more I have to say right now on either topic. I'm still more keen on the idea of practical unity vis-a-vis community than I am ideological unity. But that requires physical proximity to other Pagans to actualize, and I'm not settled yet. In truth, I tend to do better with face-to-face conversations anyway. I sort of run out of steam quickly in forums. But if I think of anything constructive to add to either topic, I will.

Many Blessings,

--

Ceallaigh S. MacCath-Moran | www.csmaccath.com



CalonDdraig
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Posts: 250
Joined: 2007-10-30
I've started another thread

I've started another thread on the idea of Druidic/Pagan places of retreat/colaboration here: http://www.druidicdawn.org/node/1730 My hope is that it can form its own interesting discussion on this space, and leave us to discuss the origal point on this thread. 

Which brings me round to alternatives to unity. Harmony has been mentioned as another philosophy for working together as druids. I personally like this more than unity, as unity seems a very stron idea that some people might not be happy with. So I was thinking about the ideas we're looking at here. I'll sum up.

 

  • Shared respect for our paths as individuals - "myriads of pathways to the Light" as Con rightly called them. After all, isn't this about everyone's individual Druid Pathways being shared together?
  • Appriciation of differences and dialogue to help each other understand what makes those differences special? Also to help in building bridges in spite of those differences (after all, we all losely have the same ideas)
  • Creating neutral grounds to share our ideas, and explore them in the face of other, even contradictory ideas - after all, we learn as much and more from the things that challenge our ideas as just sitting there on a soap box expounding our ideas and procrastinating about acting on them.
  • Shared objectives that all Druids can happily buy into - an example that I'm sure no-one here would disagree with is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. This was forged by the UN as a document to unite us all. Perhaps Druids need to look at a similar idea for us druids - a set of agreed values and paramaters to conduct ourselves by?

Other words we could use to describe this harmonious action could also be: Empathy, sympathy, synergy, open-ness and pure willingness to appriciate diversity.

 

If I may, I return to Shropshire Pagan's point here about Quakerism. Although it is a homogenous society, the point that must be stressed here is that all members of the Society are different in their approaches and beleifs. Hence the adage that if you ask 20 Quakers to agree on something, you'll get 21 different answers. Yet, they are all united in the simple, uncomplicated form of worship that doesn't require much except willingness to be and a recognition of a higher energy in everything. I think we should take this attitude to our druidry and not keep getting hung up on robes, wands, parephenalia and tools. The tools are irrelevant, it is the mechanic and the engine that is important - the tools just facilitate the work.

 

Hoping we can take this discussion to new levels.

 

~CalonDdraig 

 



Shakti
Posts: 50
Joined: 2008-11-22
Me too!

Adam : What a coincidence! ;-)

I live in a Druid School too, lol. The same that you describe. A hundred and eight acres of woodland and four houses, wow. How lucky we are.

Some people´s dreams are other people´s daily reality.

*grin*

 

PS.- Just a question : Would the concept of "monastery" mean celibacy ???? I doubt Pagan people would accept that!...



csmaccath
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Posts: 40
Joined: 2008-09-20
I don't know much about

I don't know much about building planning, but I have a fair hand with technology, and of course my husband is a technologist by trade. In all honesty, I'd love to buy an old monastery and refurbish it (me thinking big again), but failing that, I like the idea of semi-permanent structures, as long as they're lovingly tended. I'm really glad other people are interested in this sort of thing and that some are already executing it (good on you, Adam!). The more of us who think along these lines of community, the greater the chance we succeed. I really look forward to meeting you and others in person. If I get into the university, I'll have to throw a moving-in party and invite you up to Aberdeen for an overnight and pancakes in the morning. Or, failing that, maybe we'll all meet at Glastonbury for a summer solstice.

Many Blessings,

--

Ceallaigh S. MacCath-Moran | www.csmaccath.com



attila
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Posts: 154
Joined: 2007-11-25
A few ideas...

This all sounds great! A few ideas;

Land is the most important aspect, we could add a load of yurts [kinda like Mongolian tents made of thick strong colourful materials] and put them on wooden platforms. This so as to get around planning permissions to build onto an existing building, and so that you would not have to buy a mansion house.

If it happens then as I am not rich I could help with building expertise and maintenance, depending on where it is located. Perhaps we could look into getting study groups involved along with the major orders ~ part of a course could be a short spell in the monastry, that kinda thing.

The main this to think big is to be united, this is an important aspect to get sorted first imho.