The Gods Project

cuardai
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Astrocelt and I were in the chatroom today and talk turned to how the first thing people new to the path wanted to learn about were the gods.  We discussed how we here at the Druidic Dawn could help and we thought of starting this thread.  We will read through the myths noting the names of the gods, their stories, their relationships to each other, their attributes, the symbols or weapons associated with them and so on.  In this way we can later have a database of gods permanently added to the site (we hope).

We are starting with the Irish gods for now but later we hope to do the same for the Welsh gods.  The first myths we will look at are the ones in the Book of the Taking of Ireland (Book of Invasions).  For those of you who don't have it here is where you can find it online:

Book of the Taking of Ireland

So let us begin!

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Eadha Deora
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Re: Astrocelt's Brigit diagram

That's why it's so nice to share with other people! Working together makes all the difference. xx

 

--

'Just once let what is in your care grow wild enough to see the world through its own eyes.'

http://www.feralpoetry.com

 



Astrocelt
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Re: Astrocelt's Brigit diagram

Thanks for the additions, ED the chart was something which was put together quickly so a lot depends on the sources one is utilising at the time to inspire, one hopes. Laughing

Ac

 



Eadha Deora
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Re: Astrocelt's Brigit diagram

Definitely try those books above. Also found this:

BRIGID - MUIRE NA nGAEL (MARY OF THE GAEL)

Brigid was born in Fochart
in 450AD and lived until 525AD. Her father was Dubtach and her mother
worked
as a bondmaid in Dubtach's house. As a child, she was sold into service
in the house of a Druid where she worked as a shepherd, a dairymaid,
alms giver. As an adult, she started the church of the oak (Coill
Dairagh, Cill Dara, Kildare) in Kildare town where she worked as
spiritual leader, healer, miracle worker, and educator.

(The text above was taken from a sheet distributed at the visitors center in Kildare town. Compiled by
Tourism Students at Kildare College of Further Studies, January 2000.)

--

'Just once let what is in your care grow wild enough to see the world through its own eyes.'

http://www.feralpoetry.com

 



cuardai
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Re: Astrocelt's Brigit diagram

I'll take anything you can offer lol.  I have a lot of encyclopedia enteries but no real books on her really.

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Eadha Deora
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Re: Astrocelt's Brigit diagram

Oh loads :D

  • 'Rekindling the Flame: A Pilgrimage in the Footsteps of Brigid of Kildare' by Rita Minehan  (fairly rare -- look it up as it's one of the best resources out there on her)
  • 'Brigid: Goddess, Druidess and Saint' by Brian Wright
  • 'Brighid's Healing: Ireland's Celtic Medicine Tradition' by Gina McGarry
  • 'The Rites of Brigid: Goddess and Saint' by Sean O'Duinn
  • 'Brigid of Kildare: A Novel' by Heather Terrell

Not to mention all the various books out there on Irish traditions like Imbolc which would also touch on her. There was even an EXCELLENT article I found at Bangor Uni library on actual Irish festive traditions associated with Brigid at Lughnasadh!

You see, Lughnasadh is the balancing, opposite side of Imbolc. She was represented at both times, according to folk traditions and customs.

But can I get that article for you? I have no idea even where it is now. :( Some Celtic scholarly journal.  

 

 

--

'Just once let what is in your care grow wild enough to see the world through its own eyes.'

http://www.feralpoetry.com

 



cuardai
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Re: Astrocelt's Brigit diagram

Thanks ED,  I'm trying to write an essay for my webiste on her would you recommend some resources?  Mostly I need more abou the goddess but anything to do with the Saint is good too.

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Eadha Deora
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Re: Astrocelt's Brigit diagram

Awesome flow diagram for Brigit, AC. May I suggest some additions?

Christian Brigit Associations:

  • 'Naomh Gael': Mary of the Gael (Mary of the Irish is the same, so redundant)
  • Christ's Wet Nurse
  • Mary's Midwife
  • Saint of Mercy, Charity and the Poor or Embarrassed
  • 'An Chailleach Libht': Nun of Life
  • Saint of Ale and Brewing
  • Virginal Flame or Hearth Keeper
  • Prosperity -- Pastoral, not so much Agricultural
  • 'Queen of the South'
  • 'Protectress of Ireland'
  • Possible lesbian (according to Peter Berresford Ellis)
  • Official Catholic patronage of: babies; blacksmiths; boatmen; cattle; chicken farmers; children whose
    parents are not married; children whose mothers are mistreated by the
    children's fathers; Clan Douglas;
    dairymaids; dairy workers; fugitives; infants; Ireland; Leinster,
    mariners; midwives; milk maids; nuns; poets; poor; poultry farmers;
    poultry raisers; printing presses; sailors; scholars; travellers;
    watermen

I've never heard of St. Brigit's father being a Druid. But I do know that he was a local Leinster chieftan--and her mother was supposed to be a Pictish slave in his household (not his wife). 

It has also always interested me the myriad animals and plants associated with Brigid. She seems to have more than most.

Associated Animals:

  • Cows and calfs
  • Sheep and lambs
  • Horses (from her Curragh outside Kildare)
  • Snake (said to come out on Imbolc from fairy-mounds)
  • Fox
  • Swans
  • Cormorant (in Wales)
  • Crane
  • Deer
  • Fish (in Wales)

Associated Plants:

  • Oak (Cill Dara)
  • Snowdrops
  • Rushes (Brighid's Crosses)
  • Corn
  • Birch

One of my favourite images of her: http://www.firetree.net/wheel/pic/brighde.jpg

Interestingly, the Goddess Brigid was not just associated with pregnancy and fertility, but also with the woman's rites of mourning and burial (ie caoine or singing the keen). In fact, Brigid is the one who supposedly invented the keen. Perhaps the Washer Woman at the Ford is connected to Brigid ...

As the Cailleach is also connected to her. In Scotland as well as on the Beara Peninsula down in ancient Munster, Ireland -- the Cailleach turned into Bride (Brid or Brighid) each spring and back into the Cailleach each autumn.

Landscape Associations (earth, sky, sea):

  • Wells and Springs
  • Hearth and Tribal Bonfires
  • Curragh, near Kildare (largest wild grassland in Europe!) -- over which Brigid spread her mantle ('Green Mantle')
  • Sea (number of references) -- over which she also spreads her mantle ('Blue Mantle')
  • Sun and sun-beams

I could go on actually. Of all the Celtic Goddesses, we know the most about Brighid!!!

 

--

'Just once let what is in your care grow wild enough to see the world through its own eyes.'

http://www.feralpoetry.com

 



Morri
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Re: The Gods Project

Oh oh! And big thanks also on fixing the linkies in my original post.

 I am challenged in triplicate at the moment as I lost everything on my comp on Friday and am on my third OS in as many days. Do assume that I know nothing at this point regarding how anything operates on this system, because it is the case :S So any and all direction and help will be most appreciated.

 

--

~Morri
Fierce in all things and Honour above all.



cuardai
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Re: The Gods Project

Agreed a BIG hero!

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Morri
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Re: The Gods Project

Thank you Astrocelt! I'm so glad you found it! People should ignore the one I attached and look to the current website as my version is at least  5 years old!

 You are on my hero list for finding it again!

--

~Morri
Fierce in all things and Honour above all.



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

Found a public domain version here: Tuatha Dé Danann Family Tree by Joseph F. Morales



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

Hi Morri,

Depending on what browser I'm using determins whether the attachments are visible and listed at the end of the post. I'll have a word withthe comptuer technicians on there return from Ireland.

In the mean time I've linked in the doucuments to the appropiate places in the text, these are now visible in both browsers I use.

Cheers astrocelt



Morri
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Re: The Gods Project

Hi Astrocelt,

 Yes, the first link is a .html document of a web page that I saved to my hard drive.  That is the only existing copy of the webpage that I am aware exists now. The original link sends you to http://members.home.net . All the embedded links in the page were originally links to the headings on the page itself, but because the original web page no longer exists the links do not work. I did not bother to change them as the information is on the page and I do not want to presume to change the original work in any way unless it is to preserve information, which changing the links would not do.

 Over the years I have continued to search for Joseph Morales's work and this page on the internet but, as I said, I've not been able to find it under its original title or under his name. So as far as I know it is not presently available on the internet. It is also not public domain, as the copyright at the bottom of the page is to Joseph.

 My question regarding the links actually was not in regards to the document but to my post as I am unable to see either document as an attachment to my post nor as a link embedded in the text. I did both when I posted it but I do not know why they don't appear for me. Obviously you have access to the docs, is this through my post or through the druidicdawn.org/files area?

Am I doing something wrong regarding attaching files and/or embedding links to attached files when I post here?

Thanks!
Morri

--

~Morri
Fierce in all things and Honour above all.



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

Hi Morri

The first link looks to be a web page with an embedded image on it, I would suggest uploading the associated image and link it to the original .htm file

The second where all links appear to be directed to http://members.home.net/

Where for instance Danu and Bile point to http://members.home.net/#danu_and_bile which is defaulting to http://members.home.net/

The same applies to the main website at http://members.home.net/lumiere/index.htm again its defaulting to http://members.home.net/

So I’m just wondering if there is something missing from the urls which are linked into the document? Alternatively is the page in public doman and presently available on the internet.

Cheers

Astrocelt



Morri
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Re: The Gods Project

Astrocelt ~ sorry I can't seem to figure out why the file attachments don't appear and why the links I embed to the attached files don't work :S...help??

--

~Morri
Fierce in all things and Honour above all.



Morri
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Re: The Gods Project

 

Hi All!

 This is wonderful and I need to spend a bit of time reviewing the information you have worked so hard to put together. I regret that I have not had the time to come in and join in the discussions and am trying to sort things out so that I can be a constructive member of DD :)

In the iterim, I thought I would share a couple of things I have that may help. Forgive me if the Morales Family Tree information is already cited here somewhere.

Joseph Morales put together a lovely web page called "Tuatha De Danann Family Tree" many years back which I saved as a document and am attaching here. The website disappeared and I've never been able to find it again.

The second document is the family tree that I put together to help me understand the complexity of the Morrigan as a group of individuals. Much of it is gleaned from "War Goddes: The Morrigan and her Germano-Celtic Counterparts" by Angelique Gulermovich Epstein (1998) which was a dissertation for her PhD in Folklore and Mythology. Other sources used were the Lebor Gabala, Markale's "Women of the Celts" and the various dictionaries of Celtic Mythology, particularly McKillop and Bereford Ellis.

I hope to learn a great deal as I read through all of this wonderful information and thank you so much for putting it together!

--

~Morri
Fierce in all things and Honour above all.



cuardai
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Re: The Gods Project

Yawza!  It sure will.

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

This might help Smile

Brigit



cuardai
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Re: The Gods Project

I'm still trying to research Brigit, but I keep getting side tracked.

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

$64 Cont

$64.13 Tuirill s. Cait moreover was the grandfather........

$64.14 The three sons of Cermait, moreover......

$64.15 Ernmas had other three daughters.......

$64.16 Boind daughter of Delbaeth s. Elada

$64.17 Fea and Neman, the two wives of...

$64.18 Uillend s. Caicher s. Nuadu Airgetlam.

$64.19 Bodb of the Mound of Femen, s. Eochu Gab s......

$64.20 Abean s. Bec-Felmas s. Cu s......

$64.21 En s. Bec-En s. Satharn s. Edleo s. Alda s. Tat s. Taburn.

Notes: - No charts produce when $64. is without a hyperlink.

Astrocelt

 

 



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

$64 Cont

$64.7 Siugmall s. Corpre Crom s. Eremair s. Delbaeth s. Ogma

$64.8 Oengus mac Oc and Aed Caem and Cermait Milbel, those are the three sons of the Dagda

$64.9 Corpre the poet s. Tuar s. Tuirell s. Cait Conaichend s. Orda s. Alldui s. Tat

$64.10 Galia s. Oirbsen s. Elloth s. Elada s. Delbaeth s. Net

$64.11 Orbsen was the name of Manannan at first, (self explanatory).

$64.12  The six sons of Delbaeth s. Ogma s. Elada s. Delbaeth s. Net....

More to follow....

Thanks for the heads up Kenneth will have to modify Dian Cecht once more and add an extra son to the list :)

Look forward to seeing your essay in due course cuardai :)

astrocelt



cuardai
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Re: The Gods Project

You are doing such a great Job AstroCelt.  Currently I am researching Brigit, so I should have an essay on her soon to share.

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

Stanatz 64

This one is quiet long which brings in various genealogies; in this particular instance I have subdivided this into its separate parts. $64 remains the same, at this present time it’s difficult to attest some of the names given, so no tree has presently been created to illustrate this visually. The remainder genealogies are identified as $64.1 through to $64.21, the names with a question mark besides are those who there is presently a difficulty identifying, can any community member assist in this task further? However the first six are given here: -

$64.1 Neit s. Indui s. Alldui s. Tat

$64.2 Fiachna s. Delbaeth s. Ogma s. Elada s. Delbaeth s. Net

$64.3 Ai s. Ollam s. Delbaeth s. Ogma s. Elada

$64.4 Lug s. Cian s. Dian Cecht s. Esarg s. Net s. Indui s

$64.5 Lug son of Ethliu

$64.6 Caicher and Nechtan, the two sons of Nama s. eochu Garb s. Dui Temen s. Bres s. Delbaeth s. Net

Several of this are of interest as they could assist to place an approx date on them. $64.5 tends to suggest there is an association with the new concept of seeing the world through Christain eyes being introduced. $64.4 would be interesting to source Alldui attributed to introducing Games and racing. Plus there is $64.2 which tends to suggest an association with early Celtic Christianity in ireland which would date Fiachna to after the return of the commision sent to Rome on the fact finding mission c.633AD iirc. Some more passing thoughts.

More to follow on $64

Astrocelt



kproefrock
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Re: The Gods Project

This is truly a wonderful project ;-) Going through Timeless Myth's online version this morning, I came across this reference to another one of Dian Cecht's offspring, Sawan.

"Like Bres, Lugh was half-Danann and half Fomorian. His father was Cian, son of Danu and brother of master-smith Goibhniu and Sawan. Lugh's mother was Ethlinn, daughter of Balor. Balor discovered from a prophecy that one day, his grandson would kill him. Balor sought to avoid this fate by imprisoning his daughter in the tower, very much like Acrisius tried to imprisoned his own daughter Danaë.

Cian was an owner of a magic cow that had endless supply of milk. Though disguise and deception, Balor lured away Sawan, who was guarding the cow, during his brother's absence. Balor then stole Cian's cow. Cian sought vengeance upon Balor."

http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/invasions.html 

Have a wonderful day!!

Kenneth 



cuardai
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Re: The Gods Project

Hmm, good point on the P to Q Celtic transfer...

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Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

Sanatz 63

"Delbaeth after The Dagda, ten years in the kingship.....Fiacha s. Delbaeth took the kingship of Ireland after his father,.."

This particular paragraph is where it becomes interesting from my point of view. As Delbaeth  is a brother to the Dagda and also fathered Fiacha or Fiachad, not only is he credit with being the soverign ruler of Ireland after Delbaeth but Fiachad is introduced the Fianna. This was a form of kings bodyguard or an elite militery group.

The father Delbaeth is of interest as in $64 several other names are mentioned were his other name is 'Tuirell Bicreo' confusion start to come into play as the six sons of Delbaeth now lists those of the Dagda ie ogma and also other we have meet in associated geneaology presentations here.

The ending remark in the paragraph relating to the coming of the 'Gaedil to Ireland' makes one wonder whether this is the transfer from P to Q Celtic linguistics too. Just a few thoughts to accompany this diagram.

Astrocelt

 




Astrocelt
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Re: The Gods Project

Hi Elkie,

This book sound a very interesting read, and worthy of an added book review to site.

Interesting the goddess Anu in the apsect of the "mother of the gods" is very probably for the Minuster area. I understand this is a medieval name and a variant of the goddess Danu.

Anu is mentioned in the Santaz 62 under the geneaology of the she farmer Ernmas. We have already meet Ernmas in the first presentation, where she is connected in some way to Midhir Male God of Tir Tairngiri from the otherworld or Land of Promise. Although I've not come across any indication of a relationship between them. The daughter of   Ernmas is Macha, the soverigh goddess of Ulster.

Its interesting how Ernmas is described as a she farmer. A mortal female farmer working the land or a mother of the earth farming the land/territory area of the tuath.I wonder which the scribe was referring too! Smile

Astrocelt



Elkie
Posts: 112
Joined: 2007-09-23
Re: The Gods Project

A recently published book The Red-Haired Girl from the Bog: The Landscape of Celtic Myth and Spirit by Patricia Monaghan further enriches this project. It's about one woman's pilgrimage to several of the most anciently sacred sites in Ireland. For example Chapter 8 is devoted to Munster and such sites as Dha Chioche Dhanann, commonly called The Paps of Anu. Other chapters focus on Boann as Cow Goddess, Emain Macha in Ulster, and the Cave of the Morrigan in Cruachain, Connacht.

Thanks for your interesting and informative work.

Elkie



cuardai
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Re: The Gods Project

Thanks Astrocelt!

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar