Historical Druid Project

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This thread has been split from The Gods Project it is designed to run side by side. If you come across any referneces to Historical Druids in the literature or other sources, this thread is where one can share that information. Don't forget to add the source from which it originates.

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Renard

Guardian of the Druidic Dawn



Astrocelt
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Historical Druid Project

The Book of Invasion of Ireland from Mary Jones website $62 mentions "Cirba was king of the wethers, from whom is Mag Cirba. Math son of Umor was the druid". It's difficult at present to locate 'Math son of Umor' as a druid.

The nearest I've presently come to is a Tuath de Danaan Druid named Mathgen, who's claim to fame is within the second battle of Moytura between the Tuath de Dannan and the  Fomorie. Here he had the ability to move mountains and bring them down on the heads of the Fomorie.

Interestingly Mathgen also appears to be the name of the Irish male Bear (matugenos, "son of a bear"), so I wonder if there is an association.

Does anyone in the community have any additional information on the Druid named Mathgen or more correctly 'Math son of Umor?'

ref:
http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/lebor4.html#55
http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Myths/Tuatha-De-Danann/Bres&the...
http://druidry.org/obod/druid-path/druidryshamanism.html
http://www.druidschool.com/site/1030100/page/471127
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/honanchapelproject/floor.html



Elkie
Posts: 112
Joined: 2007-09-23
Re: Historical Druid Project

Well there's certainly been lots of interesting things written about Abaris. It seems certain he was a physician and probably a druid-shaman.

Thanks Astrocelt,
Elkie



Astrocelt
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Historical Druid Project

Just been looking for information on Abaris the Druid, an very interesting individual which has been associated with various some Celtic lands we know today. But uncertainty may still persist concerning Abaris origins. William Stukeley, writes on John Toland belief that Hyperborean has a connection with the Shetland Isles and associates this Druid Philosopher likewise. He has also been connected to Ireland where Abrais becomes Abhras. Nearer to the classical world suggestions of origin range from Scythia and more recently Yugoslavia.

It is possible to get some idea of what Abrais is recorded to have achieved from classical texts available, however his origins remain a mystery as there is no consensus of opinion available.

Astrocelt

Ref:
http://articles.smashits.com/articles/religion/143367/abaris-rabbi-the-d...
http://www.answers.com/topic/abaris-the-hyperborean
http://www.spiracanada.com/ravenDreamer/articles/abaris.htm
http://www.witchcraftandwitches.com/witches_abaris.html



cuardai
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Posts: 94
Joined: 2007-11-30
Re: Historical Druid Project

I'm still reading through the Book of the Taking of Ireland and I just
finished reading Sanzas 39-54. 

The Son of Nemed is Iarbonel the Soothsayer, while he is not called Druid a soothsayer could be equated to an ovate can't he?


Also at the end, the very last stanza talks about the progeny of
Bethach son of Iarbonel the Soothsayer son of Nemed going to the
northern Islands of the World learning druidry and knowledge and
prophecy and magic, till they were experts in the arts of pagan
cunning.  Could this be were the Tuatha De Danann learned their arts?And isn't it telling that it was the progeny of Iarbonel the Soothsayer were the ones that went to do the studying...

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Astrocelt
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Historical Druid Project

Fiss, Eolas and Eochmarc

Three Druids of the Partholon are mentioned in the Lebor Gabála Érenn

The three druids of Partholon of the harbours,
Fiss, Eolas, Eochmarc:
the names of his three champions further,
Milchu, Meran, Muinechan.

Mary Jones Translation from http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/lebor2.html#26

Linguistic studies have related the words of Fiss to Imbas; Eolas to Knowledge and Eochmarc to enquiry, the question would relate to whether these are indeed names related to Druids during the Partholon phase of taking Ireland. Perhaps a clue is in that they are named as being the harbours is this a noun, are they names of Ports where a ship can anchor safely for shelter? Alternatively is the word Harbour being used in a different context? Can it be interpretative as a transitive verb whereby its a place which provides shelter and sanctuary; or to keep in mind an emotional thought; or even an abstract place where something can live and be found?

If it’s the latter then each harbour could become an abstract sanctuary where Imbas, knowledge and enquiry can be gained. This could be a port of call, having crossed the sea/water within its present day psychological and symbolic understanding.  However the stanzas point the words to the name of three Druids, or are they really the companions who hold the Fiss, Eolas and Eochamarc?

If one takes that line of enquiry, the name of Milchu becomes a named landowner and Druid slave owner of Maewyn Succat who became better known as St. Patrick. Additionally Milchu becomes associalted not only with Ireland but also Dalriada, which could be either Northern Ireland or SW Scotland as we know it today. Whereas Meran is a place name in Southern Italy, and Muinechan becomes a place name in Southern Ireland near the boarder with the Northern Ireland today.

This quick search turns up little about Milchu, Meran, Muinechan within the context one is looking for. There indeed could be more references in associated literature, which might come to light later. Has any community member anything to add to this about the Druids named Fiss, Eolas, Eochmarc?

Astrocelt

Ref.
http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/lebor2.html#26
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LeZM7Lnxg14C&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=Fiss...
http://www.fantasy-ireland.com/legend-of-st-patrick.html
http://www.t-six.com/useful/83992-story-st-patrick.html



Elkie
Posts: 112
Joined: 2007-09-23
Re: Historical Druid Project

Thanks for creating this thread.  The first Druid Name I ever encountered was Abaris, mentioned in Ward Rutherford's book "Celtic Lore". From page 112: '...the Greek philosopher Pythagoras had been instructed by a Druid named Abaris'

Elkie



Astrocelt
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Historical Druid Project

Caicher the Druid

An internet search reveals several variations of the spelling as Caicer, Caicher, Caichér; for this Druid of the Milesians.  There appears at this time to be limited amount of information available, apart from a quick search where he is mentioned in the Annals of Inisfallen. Additionally Alastair McIntosh has drawn some comparisons with biblical context of the story.

Is there any other refrences available?

astrocelt

Ref:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O70-Caicer.html
http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/lebor1.html
http://www.maryjones.us/ctexts/lebor1.html#14
http://indigo.ie/~marrya/scota.html
http://www.oneirishfamily.com/History/history/inisfallen-2.htm
http://www.alastairmcintosh.com/articles/2000_andrew.htm



Elkie
Posts: 112
Joined: 2007-09-23
Re: Historical Druid Project

Posted  Thu, 03/25/2010

Re: The Gods Project

Thanks Maya; I wonder what other clues to the ancient druids
lie in their names?

Elkie



cuardai
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Posts: 94
Joined: 2007-11-30
Re: Historical Druid Project

Posted Thu, 03/25/2010

Re: The Gods Project

Stanzas 26 - 38 talk about the invasions of Cessair and
Partholon.  There does not seem to be a mention of any gods here but
there is mention of more druids in Partholon's time.

The Druids are Fiss, Eolas, Eochmarc and interestingly enough
all three names have meanings associated with knowledge or learning.

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar



Elkie
Posts: 112
Joined: 2007-09-23
Re: Historical Druid Project

Posted Wed, 03/24/2010 - 21:29

Re: The Gods Project

Now this is a project I have not seen done - to list the names
of the druids documented in history, and what we know about them. Is
anyone else curious about this?

Elkie



cuardai
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Posts: 94
Joined: 2007-11-30
Re: Historical Druid Project

posted Wed, 03/24/2010 - 07:14

Re: The Gods Project

Ok I just finished reading stanzas 1-25 which include the
Biblical History and the Gaedhil history.  And while there were no Gods
and Goddesses in there, there was one person that should be mentioned I
think.  

The first druid to be mentioned in the Book of the Taking
of Ireland is called Caicher the Druid.  He was a Chieftain-Druid and a
seer who prophecied that the Gaedhils will reach Ireland 300 years fro m
his time.  The Gaedhils are his sons and the sons of the other two
cheiftains with him. 

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar

--

Maya
Tosach Eolais Imchomharc.
The beginning of knowledge is inquiry.
Celtic Scholar