Officiality in Druidism

Nyghtwolfe
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To officially call oneself a Druid, is it nessesary to have formal membership and training in a Druidic group or can anyone who studies and believes in Celtic and Druidic beliefs and traditions call themself a Druid even though they are not members of any group?

 Some feel that without formal training a person can only scratch the surface of Druidism. Without proper initiation rituals anyone can join or leave Druidism instantly without much forethought.

Others feel that Druidism is an open spiritual practise that can be practised by anyone. It is easier for solitary Druids to simply pracise their own version of Druidism when their are no local groves to practise with.

I just want to know your opinion on the matter.

--

Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Kenneth,

 

I closed my last post with “I will give you the last word.” for a reason. Apparently, you were unable to grok my underlying intent.  However, since you have chosen to end what I was hoping would be your last direct communication to me with a question, I will respond.

 

In the end, it cannot be said that either of our posts since this exchange began have held any meaningful spiritual content. Whatever you said that may have been of any intrinsic value, you used in attacking me, and I am not sure between which two blows from your broadsword you expected me to extend my hand in a spirit of friendship or cooperation. I, on the other hand, have been fully occupied with defending myself since your first post. If, in the beginning, you had merely corrected me with regard to etiquette in this, what is to me, a very new form of communication, rather than calling me dishonest, some form of dialogue beneficial to both of us and the internet Druidic community at large may have ensued.

 

Your continued predilection for twisting my words to suit your argument is dishonest if intentional, and just plain stupid if not. For instance, I did not just start declaring people imposters (plural), as you said. It was one person, whose attempted erection of a barrier to others who are trying to “do the right thing”, and want to call themselves Druidic, I find objectionable. I do not presume to say who should or should not be called a Druid either. I will defend any one (even you and Stefan) who wants to define themselves as Druidic, if they simply love and respect nature and are trying to “do the right thing” in living a life that “does no harm” to the Earth that I love, whether they want to reenact ancient rituals, or just hug a tree. This has been my position for thirty-five years, and will remain my position. I think any one who has read what I have written can clearly see that, so, since you do not seem to be stupid, I must assume that this is intentional on your part.

 

There is no danger of this devolving into a personal interaction either, and I cannot imagine contacting you privately for any reason. Any one can start a new forum topic any time they want to, and as yet, I am not aware of any shortage of “public or neutral cyberspace”. Even as a beginner on the computer, I think that is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read. As the count stands right now (345 reads), someone seems very interested in this exchange. Now, if all this nonsense is your way of avoiding my last question about your ancestry, in apologizing and wanting to save “cyberspace” and remove this conversation from public view, all you have to do is say that it’s none of my business, and I will understand completely.

 

As for your last question, you have already answered it yourself, in your first post.....

  

“there is no “officiality” in modern Duidry”

     

Aemilius



kproefrock
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Aemilius,

I have obviously offended you, and for that I apologize. Your last two posts to this thread hold little to no productive content, in my opinion. What are you hoping to accomplish here?

For my end, I would like to establish a bridge between the relative factions of modern Druidry. I would like to strive towards common ground. I don't agree with most of what I have seen you write here and I simply want to express that there is a different opinion. At the same time, we are all working towards similar goals...I think ;-)

Let's talk about those goals...the initiating query for this thread involved "officiality" in Druidry. You quickly began declaring people impostors, from a position of apparent "officiality" while you were declaring that Druidry has no 'officiliality'--I felt compelled to respond at that point.

This does not and should not devolve into a personal interaction. If you want to more about who I am, contact me privately. In the meantime, let's consider the desires of the other participants here and save some public and neutral cyperspace for some meaningful discourse...if such is possible.

Where would you like to take the question of Officiality in Druidry? 

Kenneth 



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Kenneth,

Additionally, in making reference to "our ancestral heritage", as usual, you make no mention of your actual ancestry or how it connects you to Druidry. Just curious, if you would care to elaborate.

Aemilius



Nyghtwolfe
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Thank you everyone for your responces. To be honest I haven't had time to thoroughly read the past few responces, so I apologize for any inaccuracies.

Kenneth: Thank you for daring to post a comment that is opposing the opinions of the others. A clearer, less new-agey responce. Please feel free to provide any opinion you have to any of my posts.

Astrocelt and Aemilius: Thank you for continuing the formalities of the website and protecting its neutrality, but I was seeking knowledge not spiritual psychotherapy. You need not filter any of the comments, thank you.

 

Love and blessings of the gods to you all.

--

Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



kproefrock
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Aemilius,

You wrote: "I have already conceded that my previous “comment” was inappropriate and have addressed that issue." 

No, you went back and edited your post in a public forum to make it look like you never said it in the first place, that is dishonest, at worst, and bad manners, at best. If you feel the need to recant your words, please do so straightforwardly through another post.

You wrote: "you provide no information with respect to the long arduous process or the rigorous training we both value so greatly, nor do you make any mention of the source of your instruction, which gives me pause."

Take all of the pause that you need ;-) I won't engage in the pedigree unrolling with you. To be brief, my path within Druidry, depending on how we want to define the parameters of the term, has been most intense over the past 16 years and has included mentors and tutors such as Erynn Laurie, Gordon Cooper, Ellen Evert Hopman, Donata Ahern, and Sandra Parsons. I expect that my work speaks for itself and to their expert tutelage. The specifics of that training process has included a heavy emphasis on Filidecht training and has culminated in my role as a Deoghbaire within my spiritual community.

You wrote: "So is the resistance you seem to have to any form of “multicultural pluralism” as you call it, which sounds to us like a thinly veiled form of spiritual discrimination."

You have presumed much in this statement and it smacks of an informal fallacy. I have no resistance to multi-cultural pluralism and I am certainly not suggesting any form of spiritual discrimination. I am advocating for spiritual discernment. Discernment born from a foundational bed of understanding what our Celtic ancestors meant when they referred to certain members of their culture as Druids. Discernment that comes from understanding who one is within their culture, first and foremost, and then spreading their net of understanding into the international community where the epiphanies of compare and contrast can become fertile ground for new ideas within a living tradition. The strength of a spiritual orientation is incubated in the earnest immersion of one's self in the central ideology of one's tradition. Premature inclusion of other culture's ideology in developing a spiritual path tends, in my opinion, to displace those practices that served a similar purpose in one's original tradition and too easily undermines the cultural continuity implied in the word tradition. 

One of my great personal joys in life is discussing spiritual matters with people of other faiths. Specific to my profession, I derive a great deal of personal satisfaction in helping people develop their spiritual orientations into specific practices that help them in their quests for health, healing and transformation. I have great respect and admiration for most of the spiritual paths that I have studied in my lifetime. I am also congruent with Huston Smith's perspective that any spiritual path can be described in terms of authenticity and legitimacy.

For the sake of background, legitimacy within a spiritual path is proposed to be a socio-cultural phenomenon that is related to the congruence of an overculture with the path in question. The greater the physical number of individuals engaged in a certain path lends it its socio-cultural legitimacy. Authenticity of a spiritual path speaks more to its transformative potential within each individual practitioner. As an  example, if you are a member of a Catholic community and attend services three times a week, there is an inherent socio-cultural legitimacy to your path, however, if it does not engender any change in you as a person, if it doesn't allow for a translation of the religious precepts into everyday life that ultimately yields its transformative potential in you as an individual, it may not be an authentic path. The lone practitioner who experiences profound epiphany in their deep personal work, may well be engaged in a personally authentic practice, but, when they try to relate their epiphany to their larger community, their lack of socio-cultural legitimacy may hinder the ability of their message to reach the ears of those who might hear them.

There is a subtle balance here that I am attempting to relate. To declare one's self a fifth generation Druid seems like an attempt at creating some kind of legitimacy to who you are as a Druid. People who need that kind of reinforcement and are too ready to roll out their pedigree are, in my experience, usually trying to compensate for a lack somewhere else. Much of what occurs in the modern Druidic discussion groups is empty posturing, pure and simple; attempts to compensate for a lack of authenticity through often outrageous claims of legitimacy.

When someone asks about the presence of "officiality" in Druidry as Nyghtwolfe did:

"To officially call oneself a Druid, is it nessesary to have formal membership and training in a Druidic group or can anyone who studies and believes in Celtic and Druidic beliefs and traditions call themself a Druid even though they are not members of any group?"

Well, this, to my mind is a question of legitimacy, not authenticity. Nyghtwolfe seems to be assuming an implied authenticity in the study and belief in 'Celtic and Druidic beliefs and traditions'. All of those beautifully worded responses were establishing legitimacy of one kind or another--and Astrocelt's broadening of the answers to include Clas Brython and, ultimately, Stefan's controversial statement from a few years ago was met, by you, with cries of 'impostor'. Here you are questioning the legitimacy of someone who is well established and legitimized by a certain cohort of the community. Who are you to question anyone's legitimacy in this movement? Do you think that your declarations of being a fifth generation Druid is a solid enough basis of legitimacy that you get to pick and choose who fits and who doesn't? Are you so proud of your own legitimacy that you freely denounce someone from the other side of the ideological fence? 

How about if we dispense with the posturing and discuss authenticity in spiritual practice? What do you do with your Druidry? How does it make you a better person in your life? How does it allow you to engage with the larger community in a positive and productive way? Do you engage a daily practice?

The value that I have found in pursuing a Celtic Reconstructionist approach is that it allows me to more easily disidentify with the superficial trappings and ego bolstering aspects of modern popular culture. It provides me a context for interpreting my practical experiences into potentially meaningful language that can then be shared with other like-minded individuals. In short, it provides me a path to authenticity that isn't caught up in the politics of legitimacy. 

The specifics of my daily practice include the making of offerings to my patron Deities, reiteration of my place at the Sacred Center, refinement and development of my spiritual and physical form through the regular practice of intentional contemplation. At the current time, that includes meditation on the Cauldron of Poesy and Martin's rendition of the "Stone on the Belly" breathwork. I donate my time and personal skills to all of the members of my physical community in an attitude of hospitality and generosity--I turn no one in need away from my medical clinic. In these times of greater hositility within the southwest US towards immigrants, that means I am getting more and more proficient with my Spanish ;-) 

There is much more, but, I have rambled for long enought that I think the essential point is made.

It matters little what we call ourselves. It matters alot how we engage our lives and our communities. Who owns the Apple Tree? Anyone who wants to stake that claim--for the time they are allowed that. While such nonsense transpires, there is real work going on elsewhere, and all of it by people who aren't invested in such egotism. 

There is no officiality in modern Druidry--there is hard work on beaten paths that provide guidance, there are amazing teachers who are not ego driven, and there is a great need for our membership to learn to let go of their legitimacy needs and engage more fully with authentic living practices--as is true of most of modern culture ;-)

I hope that you are having a wonderful day,

Kenneth 



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Kenneth,

 

I read your response with great interest and, I must say, the perspective you hold is indeed starkly different from the majority of those posted up to this point, and mine. I have already conceded that my previous “comment” was inappropriate and have addressed that issue. However, as you “call a spade” when you see one, so shall I continue to call “an imposter” when I see one. I suppose, after all, it’s really just a matter of semantics.

 

I could not agree with you more about ones background being unimportant, although, it seemed terribly important to you, even crucial, in your first post. There are only two circumstances, in my opinion, when background matters. The first is when one is called a liar, a fraud and a lunatic, in which case one must attempt to prove otherwise. The second is when one becomes involved in a spirited debate such as this, where the background of the participants is useful in determining the degree to which what they have to say is pertinent with regard to the topic under consideration, whether one sees this site as neutral, biased, or even sacred.

 

Your background information indicates to me that you are a man of considerable intelligence. But, aside from your laudable titles, professions and achievements in various areas over the years, you provide no information with respect to the long arduous process or the rigorous training we both value so greatly, nor do you make any mention of the source of your instruction, which gives me pause.

 

From what I have read in my short time on the internet about the current state of Druidry up to this point, to simply say that you are split is a masterpiece of understatement. I think shattered would be a more fitting adjective. As my mother remarked, “It looks more like a swarm of fruit flies arguing over who owns the apple tree”. A sad state of affairs. Now, perhaps I missed something, but, in my experience, the “path” has shown no sign of a lack of structural integrity, and the next generation of my family is even now preparing for her future on the “path”. It’s simple precepts as we have applied them have sustained us and worked quite well for almost two centuries, so you can understand how the idea of “reconstruction” of the “living path” as a result of “anti-intellectualism”, or “abuse” of  “the title” of  Druid is something of a mystery from our point of view. So is the resistance you seem to have to any form of “multicultural pluralism” as you call it, which sounds to us like a thinly veiled form of spiritual discrimination. This is all really quite disturbing, and we are all hoping that you can allay our concerns with your next post.

 

Aemilius

       

 



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Astrocelt,

Yes, Astrocelt, I did modify what I decided was an overly harsh reaction, to a more moderate response which I stand by.

Aemilius 



Astrocelt
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Aemilius,

You originally wrote

“in my opinion, you should resign your position with this site. I will love you as the Creator demands, but I cannot condone this and have removed your name from both my mothers “companion” list and mine."

And since edited this to read

“in my opinion you should at least apologize to Nyghtwolfe and uphold the neutrality that this site is supposed to represent.”

Is there any particular reason why you have undertaken an edit between myself becoming aware of your original post to another version later?  I’m rather intrigued to learn more?

Astrocelt



kproefrock
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Aemilius,

Please accept my apology if I came on rather strong in my defense of Astrocelt and the sacred neutrality of this site ;-)

I have read the other things that you have posted on this forum, I think that I get where you are coming from and I respect that place. I am aware of your family and their various roles in the Druid Revivalry movement, I am also aware of John Michael's history with your mother, as I am a member of that Order and personal friends with half of the Grand Grove of AODA. I greatly respect the work of your immediate ancestors. I don't know you, yet, I can only go by my impressions of your words, I hope that you are cut of the same cloth as the rest of your family. 

I have been involved in too many of these conversations that start out as someone defining druidry--broadly or narrowly--and then the inevitable you are not/yes I am/no you're not nonsense. When I see it coming over the horizon, I cringe ;-)

You should know, however, that within the continuum of Druidry there are those of us who consider an academic understanding of what is known about our ancestral people to be of paramount importance in reconstructing a living spiritual path. That is not meant to be disparaging of yours or anyone else's path, only to say that my end of the continuum is Celtic Reconstructionism as that is what resonates for me. I am not confined to that paradigm, as I am also a bioregional animist who wildcrafts his Druidry.

My background is not important here, as we are all on an equal footing at a neutral site and backgrounds are usually merely ego fodder. I would hope that we can meet on a field of mutual respect, with civility and a sincere interest in edifying one another, regardless of our biases and backgrounds. For the sake of it, however, I am an Elder in the Order of WhiteOak, Celtic Reconstructionist Druids, and the current President of that organization's Board, an Ovate at OBOD, and a member of AODA. I am a licensed Naturopathic Physician, cell biologist, zoologist, Master Herbalist, primitive archer, father of five children, husband of 20 years and permaculture practitioner raising pigs, goats, chickens, turkeys and ducks in the desert Southwest of the United States.

The current state of Druidry from my opinion? We are split, that was Stefan's point when he made his fateful statement that you have referred to in this thread and elsewhere. We have taken an ancient title for a venerable social position and reduced it to a conversion religion's title. What Stefan was railing against was the rampant anti-intellectuallism that dominates both modern culture and Druidry. The title 'Druid' has become as much a fashion statement as it has a philosophy or a spirituality. There are no requirements for someone to adopt the title and so it becomes relatively meaningless except as a general orientation along the lines of nature-loving tree hugger. I am reconciled to this, please don't think that this is my personal issue. However, it also means that there are few within the community at large who actually engage in any kind of deepening work that has lasting value and is reproducible from one generation to the next. What we have, all too often, is a relatively soul-less hodge-podge of eclectic practices that have been appropriated from other cultures because they 'are cool' and a seemingly global lack of interest in the work being done to uncover the actual practices of our ancestors. 

We are a maturing movement, we have conflict from our margins which is a sure sign of vibrant health ;-) We now have the hard lesson of learning how to get along with one another when we realize that we might hold very differing viewpoints. We are learning to hold on tightly and let go loosely. We are fortunate not to have any sacred cows, we are unfortunate in that we also don't have clearly defined parameters for our spiritual practices or who we are as a people. 

The value of a place like Druidic Dawn is that it provides us a neutral ground to discuss things--that makes it a sacred space, in my opinion. Like I said before, if we meet here in an attitude of respect, civility and an earnest desire to deepen our walk and create solidarity in the movement, I think that we will win. No one needs to resign, no one needs to call anyone else an impostor, and no one needs to leave angry. We can do this, this is a place to do this and we are more than ready for this.

Just my opinion ;-)

Have a wonderful day!!

Kenneth 



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

To Kenneth,

 

You are correct, I should have thought out my response much more carefully. I am sorry for my fiery “comment” and overzealous reaction and will work on my self control. Thank you for the “heads up”!

 

As far as my “fluffy new age” approach goes, I call it simplicity, and yes, I embrace multicultural pluralism (I just call it "liking people"). Perhaps you should have looked beyond just the posted information you read. If you had read my “member’s profile”, it may have afforded you a glimpse of the “long arduous process” you seem to assume I have avoided. If you had continued to follow the trail to my mothers web site (Anglamarke), you would know that my lineage has been thoroughly investigated by two different researchers who hold a Ph.D, in preparation for the publication of books they were writing. You would also know that my great great grandmother Ange M. Mosher was respected on both sides of the Atlantic for her life long devotion to the study of Celtic folklore and wrote a book called “The Spell Of Brittany” (I think you would like it). You might also have discovered that my great grandfather, John M. Robertson, was a self educated scholar who wrote several books in the field of comparative hierology (check out “Pagan Christs” if your interested), and that his work is still valued by scholars to this day. I can assure you I am quite familiar with all of them, and some others as well. One thing you could not know, is that the current Arch Druid of the Ancient Order of Druids in America accepted instruction from my mother (free of charge) through the University of Washington in 1979.  

 

And, just as an aside, I would remind you that, equally important as recognizing the mistakes of the past in order that they not be repeated, is recognizing mistakes in the present in order that they not be made in the first place (as I have so readily demonstrated with my “comment”).

 

Enough about me. I would like to know more about you. What is your background? How did you become involved in matters of the spirit? I would very much like to know more about your “long arduous process” and the source of your “instruction”. Perhaps a short summary of your “take” on what makes a person a good Druid and why. At 52, I have only been on the internet for about six months, and I am sincerely interested in learning more about the current state of Druidry from your perspective.

 

Aemilius

 



Astrocelt
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

As you are aware this is a neutral website, presenting a difference of opinion is all part of displaying impartiality, along with the refusal to take sides. Whether it is harmonious, or otherwise with the later contributes dominate opinion.  Everyone has the ability to make their own decisions from the information and comments presented. In turn community members have a choice to share their opinions by voicing or writing these in a public, or in a member only forum if they wish.

You asked what is being referred to by ‘balance’ and ‘sphere’. This relates to having the ability of forming a valued opinion from two or preferably more different points of view, which encourage one to arrive at an informed personal opinion/truth balanced with personal experience.

Astrocelt



kproefrock
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Aemilius wrote: "For you to have violated that neutrality with this vile attempt to send a remarkable young man seeking the truth into the claws of an imposter is disgraceful. I sense your weakness in your defensive response. What “sphere” are you refering to? What balance? I am a Druid from birth, as were the four generations before me, and in my opinion, you should resign your position with this site. I will love you as the Creator demands, but I cannot condone this and have removed your name from both my mothers “companion” list and mine."

 

Hello Aemilius and All,

I apologize that I have not been able to comment on this thread up to this point, I have thought about it alot since Nightwolfe's original query. I hold a perspective that may be starkly different than those of you who have already posted. It is your ridiculous comments, Aemilius, regarding Astrocelt's statement that has pushed me to the point of this response. Astrocelt's reference to Clas Brython is in the interest of neutrality. There is a continuum to modern Druidry and the position that you seem to hold, with vague references to some monotheistic 'Creator' and obvious extreme mulitcultural pluralism that you embrace--until it comes to those of us with a more reconstructionist ideology, is only one side of that continuum.

You are a Druid by birth? hmmm, well, your approach seems very new age and fluffy, based on the information that you have posted here on this forum. Anyone can call themselves anything that they want to in this modern age, and many in the Druid movment take advantage of that. There was a time when one became a Druid through a rigorous training process--sometimes lasting twenty years. That training included arduous self-development and education. Until Aemilius, apparently, Druids were evolved members of their community, now Aemilius gets to be born such an evolved personage. Yet such an evolved personage is unable to grok the underlying intent behind Clas Brython's statements, rather, aemilius uses that statement and the controversy surrounding it to open old wounds within the community here on this neutral ground. Neutrality includes a stark view of the past, and it is important to recognize the folly of our previous ways so that we don't fall into the same traps over and over again.

I applaud your neutrality here, Astrocelt, you are integral to the workings of Druidic Dawn, and you have the courage to tell both sides of the story. I know that you will not cow down to the ravings of a self-proclaimed fifth generation druid who obviously has no idea what the term even means and has likely had no formal training or self-development that remotely resembles what the anthropological and archaeological record show us the Druids experienced. 

Nyghtwolfe, please know that there is no 'officiality' in modern Druidry, but, there is training, there is education, and without that foundation no spirituality is able to withstand the trials and tribulations of modern life. Spiritual practice should be able to foster a greater depth of character in the practitioner, walking in the footsteps of our ancestors provides a resonance for that process that is a reward unto itself. As you progress along the path of discovery, you will find many teachers and lessons, and you will know those that have import to your approach because they will catapult you through epiphany to greater levels of understanding. You will find many with Aemilius' attitude, I suggest you explore those ideas that people like this find threatening, often you will find a greater truth there than anything that emanates from someone who falls back on "I was born into this, so I have inherent credibility."

With all due respect and love to all of you on this thread. Please know that I mean no disrespect with my words, but, I am compelled to call spades when I see them.

Green Forests and Blue Skies!

Kenneth 



Aemilius
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

I have monitored the “comments” regarding Nyghtwolfe’s post, “Officiality in Druidism”, and you should all be commended for your honesty and integrity in your unanimous rejection of the unfolding spiritual travesty called “Clas Brython”, all but one, that is.

 

To Nyghtwolfe:   I feel confident and hopeful about the future of druidry. It seems that at least one torch of wisdom has already been passed successfully to the next generation. I sense your strength, and send you mine.

 

To Gillian:   Thank you for your warm welcome, I shall not forget it, and I hope to learn more about you!

 

To Bocan:   Hello to Bocan from Aemilus! May the Gods continue to guide your steps!

 

To CalonDdraig:   Your writing, along with Eadha Deora’s has buoyed my mother’s spirits and given her strength with your gift of joy!  I call you friend.

 

To Astrocelt:   I shall always be in your debt for helping me to join this site. You are on the roll of honor at the only neutral site I have been able to find. For you to have violated that neutrality in sending a remarkable young man seeking the truth to the site of an obvious imposter for more "information" is disgraceful. I sense the weakness in your defensive response too. What “sphere” are you refering to? What "balance"? I am a Druid from birth, as were the four generations before me, and in my opinion you should at least apologize to Nyghtwolfe and uphold the neutrality that this site is supposed to represent. 

 

Aemilus



Astrocelt
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Within druidry there are often many different opinions some gel and others don’t, all opinions are welcome whether they be favourable or otherwise. It’s important to have a balanced view point; this is where presenting both sides of a sphere is always important. Apart from creating balance it too leads towards understanding and growth within any chosen pathway walked.

astrocelt



CalonDdraig
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hi Bocan, 

Agreed about such statements as Clas Brython's being bad examples to use when, at the end of the day we all seem to be saying the same thing (apart maybe from Clas Brython!). To use one of my favourite and naff quotes, "We're not singing from the same hymn sheet, but we're all singing our own songs to the same tune". 

It's my religion.  It's my practice.  It's the ritual I attend.  It's
the work I do for the community.  Does that help?  Or make things more
confusing?  ;-)

It does indeed help, and it's lovely to hear another voice contributing to this thread. It genuinely is lovely to hear such encouraging words - they serve to inspire me that we can get past all the politics and egoes, power trips and so on.

Blessings,

~CalonDdraig

 



Bocan
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Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hmm. This forum doesn't seem to have the ability to "quote" other posts so it's really hard to reply to anyone....Anyway, I'd personally avoid pointing anyone to Statement from Clas Brythonor You are not Druids unless your looking for examples of how badly we get along as a community.  ;-)My response to your question would be that training and membership are irrelevant.  The label you want to slap to yourself doesn't matter either.  It's what you *do* with the label that matters.  For example:  I call myself a druid.  Not because I'm a member of any organisation but because it's what I do.  It's my religion.  It's my practice.  It's the ritual I attend.  It's the work I do for the community.  Does that help?  Or make things more confusing?  ;-) 

--

Being a druid (or any other kind of pagan) shouldn't be about sitting on grassy bank and letting the sun twinkle in your crystals. It's a duty of care owed to this world and all life upon it. It's a call for sacrifice - whether that be time, energy, money



Nyghtwolfe
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Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

I understand what you are saying. It's true, in spirituality no one can tell you what to do, but in religion it's another story. Those who believe that Druidry is a spiritual path or a philosophy would see your oppinion, but those who see Druidry as a religion would have more of a problem with the idea. But seeing as everyone who has commented so far shares your oppinion, I see no problem in the idea. :-)

Thank you and blessing

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Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



Gillian
Posts: 5
Joined: 2008-04-06
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Nyghtwolfe,

I thouroughly agree with everything that Aemilius has written. It is wise to listen to what everyone has to say (you will always learn something new, even if you think you have heard it all 100 times before). But always remember that when it comes to a question of Spirituality no one has the right to tell you what you ought or ought not to do and believe. That is purely between you and yourself and the path that you walk, and is different and individual for each one of us. As for the lables which most people feel the deep desire to categorise themselves and everyone else with, it is your actions which proclaim to the world what you are, not the name you call yourself. Let your life speak for it's self. 

Courage, clear sightedness and blessings,

Gillian

PS: An extremely warm welcome to Aemilius! It's wonderful to have someone writing such sense being written!



Astrocelt
Astrocelt's picture
Posts: 753
Joined: 2007-09-15
Re: Officiality in Druidism

In the past various debate has been undertaken on this and simular subjects. Additional information can be found here:-

Statement from Clas Brython
You are not Druids

These could be an assistance to your enquiry.

Astrocelt



Nyghtwolfe
Nyghtwolfe's picture
Posts: 9
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

 Well thank you very much Aemilius! It is always good to hear positive feedback on a twisted path full of radically varying views and prejudices.

Thank you again and good luck to you as well, wherever you may be on the path!

/|\ Nyghtwolfe /|\

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Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



Nyghtwolfe
Nyghtwolfe's picture
Posts: 9
Joined: 2010-07-31
Officiality in Druidism

To officially call oneself a Druid, is it nessesary to have formal membership and training in a Druidic group or can anyone who studies and believes in Celtic and Druidic beliefs and traditions call themself a Druid even though they are not members of any group?

 Some feel that without formal training a person can only scratch the surface of Druidism. Without proper initiation rituals anyone can join or leave Druidism instantly without much forethought.

Others feel that Druidism is an open spiritual practise that can be practised by anyone. It is easier for solitary Druids to simply pracise their own version of Druidism when their are no local groves to practise with.

I just want to know your opinion on the matter.

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Drúidíon nhói ri áíuthel nhói



Aemilius
Aemilius's picture
Posts: 55
Joined: 2010-07-31
Re: Officiality in Druidism

Hello Nyghtwolfe, fellow traveller on the "path", from Aemilius,

If you are really 15 years of age, you must be a remarkable young man indeed!

Good Luck to Nyghtwolfe on the "path"!