UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 (Mile End/ Whitechapel)

tnb
Posts: 4
Joined: 2011-09-29

Hello all,

 Firstly many thanks to Astrocelt for his kind invitation to join these forums, and also in advance to all of you for what I am sure will be some invaluable assistance.

I am currently researching the life of a man who I have reason to believe was a member of UAOD lodge number 112, also known as 'British Tar lodge', in Rotherhite, South-East London, some time between the 1850s - 1890s. Beyond these and a few other small facts, however, I have been able to discover little - therefore I am wondering whether anyone here has ever heard of this lodge, and could give me any clues as to a more exact location, dates of operation (these would help me to move forward with my research and also to conclusively rule it 'in' or 'out' for being the lodge attended by my subject)?

Absolutely anything - not only specific info on dates, location etc as mentioned above but also any personal/ family reminiscences, any pictures or images of related objects, etc -would be absolutely brilliant, and greatly appreciated. The same, indeed, is true for any more general background info on the UAOD (as distinct from the AOD) in the East End in the mid-to-late nineteenth century, a period in which I believe there were a great number of lodges in that area.

One other seemingly important lodge in the area would seem to have been UAOD lodge number 2, meeting in the Earl Grey public house on Mile End Road (to my mind, this would see the lodge classed as being in Mile End, however I have come across references to it as being in Mile End Road, Whitechapel, even though such a place doesn't technically exist!). This lodge seems to have had close links to the Rotherhithe lodge, and as coincidence would have it was also located in an area which the man in question would have known well - so any info on this lodge would also likely prove useful.

 Feel free to email me on trevornbond@aol.com as well as replying here, should you wish.

 I look forward to hearing from some of you.



Astrocelt
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Hi Trevour: Many thanks for your kind words, about the website and the community at Druidic Dawn.

Hi Myth: Many thanks for updating the Fraternal Druid Index, your recednt acquistion sounds very interesting. I note this index now has over 300 different Fraternal Lodges and Groves listed. This is indeed a credit to the community and yourself.

Astrocelt

 



Mythagobaz
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Trevor - No problem and thanks for the kind comments.

 

Astrocelt - I recognise some of the Lodges you mention e.g. George Eliot Lodge as AOD. I am SLOWLY updating the index at the moment with a recently acquired 1937 AOD Lodge list.#

 

M

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"

--

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"



tnb
Posts: 4
Joined: 2011-09-29
Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Mythagobaz and Astrocelt, (in no particular order)

Just a quick message at this point to thank you both, probably more than you can imagine, for all your hard work and generosity thus far. I have unfortunately been extremely busy these past few weeks both at work and personally, and it regretfully whilst I have been able to keep up with all the info here (and also that emailed to me privately, for which many thanks also to those concerned) I have not been able to find the time to come on here and say so.

 I hope this quick message will go some way to making you both realise how grateful I am for your assistance here - and I hope to find time tommorow for a more significant post, and also to get round to replying properly to some of the aforementioned emails.

This really is an outstanding site, for which all - moderators, contributors, one and all - deserve praise. I can only say thanks once more for the way in which you have welcomed a curious outsider, and one who doesn't keep up with his correspondence very well at that!

 Yours,

 Trevor.



Astrocelt
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Hi Myth,

Yes, I think you may be correct in thinking the"'Order of Druids' is being used generically." The main source for the post was from the London Gazette, and I could only assume it was refering to the OOD in some cases unless specifically identified as AOD or UAOD. 

The letters to the Royal Household are of interest where additional Druid Orders are mention, but these cannot be associated with a specific Fraternal Druid Order at present. A bit of a shame really, as they can't be listed in the Index, untill there is some  colaboration from additional resources. For Instance:-

1896 Margate Ancient Order of Druids

1896 Ancient Order of Druids, Bermondsey Lodge

1900 Ancient Order of Druids, Dean Swift Lodge

1901 Cromer, Royal Orient Lodge of Druids; Sheffield, Princess Alice Lodge of Druids; Shildon (New) Order of Druids;

1906 Ancient Order of Druids, Imperial Grand Lodge. 

1910  Gloucester Lodge of Druids; Hull District Order of Druids; London, Mildmay Lodge of Druids; London Druids, Livesey Lodge; Nuneaton George Eliot Lodge of Druids; Loyal Northwood Lodge Order of Druids; Camberwell Lodge of Druids; Whitehorse Lodge Order of Druids; Barking Druids, Lodge 957; Bristol Druids, Lodge No. 383; Bow, Sir Wilfred Lawson Lodge of Druids; London Druids, Livesey Lodge; Druids, Order of, Annual Movable Delegation.  

1926 & 1937 Ancient Order of Druids, Supreme Royal Arch Chapter

If you have any idea of lodge Nos or Fraternal Druid order where not stated, perhaps these could also be added to the Fraternal Druid Index, in the near future.

Astrocelt

 

 

 



Mythagobaz
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Hi Astrocelt

 This is great stuff. I suspect that 'Order of Druids' is being used generically here. The 'Coventry order of Druids' Stonehenge lodge is an AOD as is Boxmoor Lodge. In fact Boxmoor met in South London and had a lot of police officers as members. I recently met the son of one of the original members.

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"

--

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"



Astrocelt
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

At present I’ve not uncovered any additional information for the British Tar lodge UAOD which has been previously presented. Nor is this lodge recorded in the three sources consulted being; The London Gazette, Sessional papers from Parliament 1900 and the Report of the Fraternal Registrar 1900. All sources are presently available in electronic form on the internet each have gleaned information on various Orders and their respective lodges.

In the East End, there is recorded a Queen Victoria Lodge of the Ancient Order of Druids, at Stepney, although no lodge number is available. Interestingly this particular lodge sent condolences via Whitehall to the Royal Household relating to the "late Royal Highness Prince Henry of Battenberg, K.G.," in 1896.

Additionally, there is a Stepney Order of Druids, No. 2 Lodge which sent condolences via Whitehall in respect of the "late Majesty King Edward the Seventh, and congratulation to the King upon His Majesty's Accession to the Throne," in 1910. Example of other lodges which also did the same includeBristol Druids Lodge 511; Brixton Order of Druids, Camberwell Lodge; Brixton Druids, Lodge No. 462; Coventry Order of Druids, Stonehenge Lodge; Carshalton Order of Druids, Waudle Lodge; Canterbury Order of Druids, Lodge No. 98; Clapton Order of Druids, Boxmoor Lodge; Croydon Druids, Whitehorse Lodge; Coventry Druids, Royal Arch Chapter; Camberwell Lodge of Druids;  Limehouse Lodge 434 AOD, and so forth.

There is also a lodge No 2 but the lodge or the Druid Order is not named, who meet at the Queen's Head Tavern, York-square, Stepney, London. This is a public notice concerning the winding up of their Benefit Fund within three months of the notice dated 18th March 1913, requesting claimants to come forward associated with the account held at the Queen's Head Tavern. This tends to indicate No.2 Lodge dissolved possibly in 1912 but definitely by the middle of 1913.

There is also Whittington and Cat Lodge 787, UAOD located adjacent to Stepney, at Bethnal Green who meet at the Whittington Cat Inn, Hare Street, during 1899-1900.

Hope this is of some assistance, the results of this research I've undetaken will be added to the Fraternal Druid Index in due course.

Astrocelt



Mythagobaz
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

By the way this picture http://www.druidicdawn.org/celticanddruidarchive/fraternaldruids/uniteda...  is of UAOD lodges in the East End but my eyesight hasn't been good enough to read any of the Lodge numbers on the collar but it is possible that members of Lodge 112 are in the picture.

 

 

--

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"



Mythagobaz
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

The only complete Lodge lists I have for the UAOD is 1878 which is obviously earlier than you are looking at. Lodge 112 is missing from this. This could mean that at this time it had ceased to exist; it had simply been missed off or it had fallen out with the grand Lodge at that time. So unfortunately I can’t tell you where it met. 

 I do though have a copy of the 1841 Quarterly magazine which you have attcahed electronically (which is the only one I have got) and Lodge 112 is mentioned  a number of times. This to me seems your best bet in getting odd snippets about the Lodge. 

I have seen a reference in the 1841 year book (period 1839 – 1841) that Lodge 116 had its fifth anniversary on Nov 16th  on what I take to be 1841. So it must have been formed in 1836 at the very  latest. 

 Last quarter 1839 - “British Tar Lodge  112 – Rotherhithe – This Lodge is in a highly prosperous condition, the meetings being well attended and the funds in a thriving state. The Officers for the present quarter are AD (archdruid) – Hall; VA (vice-archdruid) – Highland; Sec – Westerby; Guardian – Nutley. Treasurer Weighman is ever on the alert in attending to the comfort and wishes of the brothers, and is nightly recompensed by the number of happy faces round him; not only his own Brothers but of lodges 2 and 4 (Lodge 4 (surrey Lodge not listed in 1878 either); a friendly system of visiting each other being kept up, which not even in bad weather, for the last three months, has had the power of diminishing. The sick funds of the Lodge, which have been established for some time, have at length been brought into operation  by the illness of one of the members”.  

A later entry (1840?)reports them going on a steam excursion to Richmond and Twickenham with numbers limited to 150 (although there were 36 member at this point)! The brethren dined at the lodge House, Richmond and they enjoyed a ‘merry dance’. Others went to Hampton Court. They seem to have gone home by boat.

The final entry I have seen is in 1841 when they celebrate the fifth anniversary when 60 bothers dined. Past Arch Beckett presided over the meeting assisted by Bro Fifield as vice arch. The dinner is described as being ‘sumptuous’ with songs and toasts being held. Others members mentioned include Bros Tate, Westoby, Payne, Mathews and Highland. The lodge room is described as being ‘hung round with Diplomas, coloured and framed’ and the lodge had special chairs of oak carved with oak leaves and acorns with the letters ‘UAOD on the back’. 

London district at that time in 1878 had Lodge 2 – Star in the East Lodge; Earl Grey; Mile End Rd. This is described as the senior lodge of the Order being formed in about 1787. This Lodge I think could to Lodge 72: Black Boy Inn, Rochester of the AOD as this had left the AOD in the next lodge list I have for them in 1843 after the split. The other option is that it was AOD Lodge 2 which met at the Olde Rose; Ratcliffe Highway.  It seems that the Lodge at some point ceased to exist and was reformed in 1808 but had  a chequered history. When the Lodge seceded from the AOD some members stayed with the AOD and started  arrival Lodge with the same number  but this reportedly did not last long. The strange bit is the that AOD Lodge 2 is mentioned frequently in the lists so this is where my confusion lies.

Lodge 12 – Amity, Smithfield

Lodge 300 – Marylebone, Bryanstone Sq

Lodge 321 – Sons of the Thames, Lower Shadwell

Lodge 326 – Marlborough, Kilburn

Lodge 531 – Pride of Surrey - Lambeth

Lodge 538 – Corunna - Clapham

Lodge 555 – Royal Stanley - Rotherhithe

Lodge 594 – Palm Tree - Bow

Lodge 608 – North Brixton, Hoxton 

I hope this helps

 

 

--

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"



Astrocelt
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Wonderfull tnb,

Do you also require info on UAOD Lodges 2 and 4?

I've come across AOD lodges in the East End area but still drawing a blank on your question at the moment but its early days :)

Astrocelt



tnb
Posts: 4
Joined: 2011-09-29
Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Astrocelt,

 

Many thanks for your continued digging on this issue.

Just to clarify, and in case I have missed any 'clues' which you yourself may pick up on and may help you/us, here is the only reference I myself have turned up to Lodge 112:

http://books.google.com/books?id=BxkZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA94&dq=druids+rotherhi...

Page 94, if it doesn't open on the right page.



Astrocelt
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Hi tnb,

Digging also, have turned up some interesting info on other UAOD lodges yet to be added to the Lodge index here as time allows. But alas, have yet to located Lodge112, will continue looking.

astrocelt 



tnb
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Joined: 2011-09-29
Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Barry,

 That would be brilliant - thank you.



Mythagobaz
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Re: UAOD lodges no. 112 (British Tar, Rotherhithe) + 2 ...

Hi Trevor

 I will see what i can find and come back to you

 Regards

 

Barry

 

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"

--

"May the good deeds of Druids be as numerous as the leaves on the Oak and as pure as the berries on the Mistletoe"